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Weder-Geats

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  • Anthony Appleyard
    Tore Gannholm wrote (Subject: Re: Beowolf--the Goth?):- ... but someone else wrote:- ... Is there an unusually large amount of
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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      Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm@...> wrote (Subject: Re: Beowolf--the Goth?):-
      > Weder is a ram. the one year old sheep male. ... The ram is the national
      > symbol of Gotland. Already in the 13th century it was the official seal of
      > the Gotlandic republic. You can see it on http://gotland.luma.com

      but someone else wrote:-
      > ... Many translations (Crossley-Holland, Raffel,) gloss this as an epithet -
      > the>"Weather Geats," the "Storm-Loving Geats."

      > Chickering, however, leaves it as it is, and Chambers I think (a century ago!)
      > suggested that this was the lake in South Sweden, the Wetter.

      Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?
      The sheep on the symbol may be merely a heraldic pun on a name that had a
      different origin, like the bears in the coats of arms or Berlin and Berne.

      We also seem to be back at that old query: were the Geats / Gautar the same
      people as the Goths?
    • keth@online.no
      ... Maybe in the same way that the Cartagians (PUNIC wars), were of the same origin as the Phoenicians? Other similarities: Rugiland - Migration Period
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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        Anthony Appleyard wrote:

        >We also seem to be back at that old query: were the Geats / Gautar the same
        >people as the Goths?


        Maybe in the same way that the Cartagians (PUNIC wars), were of
        the same origin as the Phoenicians?

        Other similarities:

        Rugiland - Migration Period Niederösterreich
        Rogaland - SW Norway (Jordanes -- Viking Age -- Now)
        Rügen - Baltic coast (how old is the name?)



        Also, we have composite appelatives, such as:

        danr = man from Denmark
        Eydanir = danes who live on islands.
        rygr = man from Rogaland
        holm-rygir = island dwellers of Rogaland.
        Eygotaland = the danish isles
        Reidgotaland = legendary land, either Jutland or Norther Poland
        or in that neighborhood.

        Reidgotaland could be that part of Gotaland where horses are used for transport,
        whereas Eygotaland could be that part where ships are used for transport.

        Further examples:
        Vestrgautar - people from Västergötaland (Sweden)
        Vestr-Agdir - western part of Agdir (s. Norway)
        Austragdir - eastern part of Agdir (S. norway)


        Such designations all refer to the same basic word,
        but are qualified by geographic/topographic first parts.
        Jordanes tells us that the root word is always the name of a group of
        people (tribe).

        Thus, the time-tried nomenclature suggests that they were originally
        the same group or related groups. But I don't know about

        goti = man from Gotland/Götaland (plural gotnar?)
        Gotland = the island
        Gotaland = Eygotaland + Reidgotaland?
        Gautland = todays Götaland.

        (all quotes from the ON dictionary)

        There appears to be a difference between Gotaland and Gautaland (= not the same)
        (but as you go far back in time it probably would be - the question is how far?)

        Best regards
        Keth
      • sig
        Dear Frank, ... Yes, very much so. It s for good reason called the Island of Roses (Gotland is built on lime stone in contrast to the rest of Sweden) and it is
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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          Dear Frank,

          > >Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?
          > I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)

          Yes, very much so. It's for good reason called the Island of
          Roses (Gotland is built on lime stone in contrast to the rest of
          Sweden) and it is surrounded by water that never freezes. It is
          the number one vacationland in Sweden. You'll find it right to the
          east of Vastergötland in south-central Sweden.

          As everyone who ever visited this great island can testify, this
          is "lamb" territory. There are "lamba-gardi" erected in the south
          of the island in ancient style as part of their cultural heritage.
          Yes, they still use "lamb", so Gotish)
          for sheep!

          Scotland+North England are roughly co-latitudinal with Denmark
          and South Sweden.
          There are more Swedes living there than there are Danes I think.

          Why don't you invest in a map :^))

          Fåraktligen (sheepishly)

          Seigmund

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tore Gannholm
          Frank, From the younger Bronze age Gotland has a needle with a ram head. Regards Tore ... Onela s lake battle is probable the Baltic between Gotland and the
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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            Frank,
            From the younger Bronze age Gotland has a needle with a ram head.
            Regards Tore


            >> Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm@...> wrote (Subject: Re:
            >>Beowolf--the Goth?):-
            >> > Weder is a ram. the one year old sheep male. ... The ram is the national
            >> > symbol of Gotland. Already in the 13th century it was the official seal
            >>of
            >> > the Gotlandic republic. You can see it on http://gotland.luma.com
            >
            >Hmm. A possibility I had never thought of before (not knowing any
            >Gotlanders, y'see . . .;)) But, just off the cuff, how far back before its
            >official attestation could we extend the existence of the Ram symbol? And
            >would an Anglo-Saxon audience have known that? And I think Widsith makes a
            >mention of Onela's lake battle that might correspond with Southern Sweden,
            >though I know I'm getting some names wrong . . .

            Onela's lake battle is probable the Baltic between Gotland and the coast of
            Uppland. Part of the land outside Stockholm was below sealevel




            >
            >>Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?
            >
            >I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)
            >
            >
            >>We also seem to be back at that old query: were the Geats / Gautar the same
            >>people as the Goths?
            >
            >And what's the old answer?
            >
            >Cheers,
            >Frank
          • Frank Kermes
            ... Hmm. A possibility I had never thought of before (not knowing any Gotlanders, y see . . .;)) But, just off the cuff, how far back before its official
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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              > Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm@...> wrote (Subject: Re:
              >Beowolf--the Goth?):-
              > > Weder is a ram. the one year old sheep male. ... The ram is the national
              > > symbol of Gotland. Already in the 13th century it was the official seal
              >of
              > > the Gotlandic republic. You can see it on http://gotland.luma.com

              Hmm. A possibility I had never thought of before (not knowing any
              Gotlanders, y'see . . .;)) But, just off the cuff, how far back before its
              official attestation could we extend the existence of the Ram symbol? And
              would an Anglo-Saxon audience have known that? And I think Widsith makes a
              mention of Onela's lake battle that might correspond with Southern Sweden,
              though I know I'm getting some names wrong . . .

              >Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?

              I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)


              >We also seem to be back at that old query: were the Geats / Gautar the same
              >people as the Goths?

              And what's the old answer?

              Cheers,
              Frank
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            • Frank Kermes
              ... Hey, thanks. Though I was being facetious and asking more in a nationalistic sense than geographical . . . More of my silliness invading the discussion.
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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                >Dear Frank,
                >
                > > >Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?
                > > I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)
                >
                > Yes, very much so. It's for good reason called the Island of
                >Roses (Gotland is built on lime stone in contrast to the rest of
                >Sweden) and it is surrounded by water that never freezes. It is
                >the number one vacationland in Sweden. You'll find it right to the
                >east of Vasterg�tland in south-central Sweden.
                >
                > As everyone who ever visited this great island can testify, this
                >is "lamb" territory. There are "lamba-gardi" erected in the south
                >of the island in ancient style as part of their cultural heritage.
                >Yes, they still use "lamb", so Gotish)
                >for sheep!
                >
                > Scotland+North England are roughly co-latitudinal with Denmark
                >and South Sweden.
                >There are more Swedes living there than there are Danes I think.
                >

                Hey, thanks. Though I was being facetious and asking more in a
                nationalistic sense than geographical . . . More of my silliness invading
                the discussion.

                > Why don't you invest in a map :^))

                I have several. It's just that laziness prevents me from actually
                _consulting_ them.

                Cheers,
                Frank
                >
                >F�raktligen (sheepishly)
                >
                >Seigmund
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

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