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Re: [gothic-l] Re: gothi minores, Gothograikoi

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    For twopence.. I ran goth* through my file of ethnotribes and found this. Now, this is a huge file from a database, run several times by me through several
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 29, 2000
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      For twopence..

      I ran "goth*" through my file of ethnotribes and found this. Now,
      this is a huge file from a database, run several times by me
      through several applications to finally fix a Word file. That
      means that it's totally out of context and is stripped of lots of
      referrals, indices etc. However, I-ve tried to replace
      abbreviations with their meaning when not ambigous (a bit
      difficult when i. g. S might mean Sweades, South or something
      else..)
      Finally it's a database of ethnic groups who have been mentioned
      in one or other source throughout times, which includes the
      concepts of "people", "tribe", "nation", "state" and migrating
      fraction of ethnic groups, as well as "cultures" in the
      archeological sense. All these caveats in mind it might still be
      giving ideas to starting points for further investigations into
      gothic remnants.


      At your service,

      Seigmundr

      Here (use with caution! and, please, beware of bugs!) =>

      Borani Slav Pitiunt (modern Picunda or
      Pitzunda) E shore Black Sea.
      From Lower Do? Riv.region. *{234-51}*
      Together with Goths.

      Gepidae Germ Vistula-Nogat Delta LAB
      Start date to conform to (1-9). End date
      acc/to ref 12. Originated from remnants of
      Goths who had not migrated SE.

      Gepidae Germ Gau lRAB
      From Sirmium (and intervening area, RomProv
      Pannonia II, FormYug ). *{12-5}* By East Goths.

      Pannonia II, FormYug ).} *{12-5}*
      To North Dacia in wooded & mountainous
      areas, neighbors of W. Goths. (W corner of
      Ukraine, betw Uzgorod & Chust.) + Maros,
      Tisza & Koerces Riv.s (Alfoeld, H). + Part of
      Transilvania, R. *{900-567}* (This is (900-
      568) - (12-5).) Acc/to (12-7). Displaced
      by Ostrogoths.

      Germanics Germ Lower Volga Riv.betw Caucasus & Sea
      of Azov, & in Pontic Steppes (N of
      Black Sea). LAB
      Early part of this period not confirmed by
      sources on specific Germanic tribes. Later
      part could be Goths and/or Heruli.

      Goths Germ Oester- & Vaestergoetland & Island
      of Gotland.
      End date acc/to (205-6). Not all left to
      go to Gothi-Scandza. In ref 1 they are
      called Amali while still in Scan .

      Goths Germ {Gothi-Scandza (Gothi-Scandza =
      Pol . & N D. between Vistula & Oder
      Riv.s covering modern cities of
      Gdansk, Szeszin, & Grudziadz.)}
      *{1-2}*
      From Oester- & Vaestergoetland & Island of
      Gotland. *{16-1}*. Necessary to move Goths
      from (16-1) to (1-2). Partial migration
      because (205-6) mentions as Goths as
      remaining in Goetland.

      Goths Germ Gothi-Scandza (Gothi-Scandza =
      Pol . & N D. between Vistula & Oder
      Riv.s covering modern cities of
      Gdansk, Szeszin, & Grudziadz.)
      Called Gutoni in reference.

      Goths Germ Middle Ode? Riv.Both sides of middle
      Oder R, S. boundary reached in E.
      Mark Brandenburg, into the Lausitz
      area and Lower Silesia.
      From Gothi-Scandza. (Gothi-Scandza = N Pol .
      & N D. between Vistula & Oder Riv.s covering
      modern cities of Gdansk, Szeszin, &
      Grudziadz). *{1-2}*

      Goths Germ {Middle Ode? Riv.Both sides of
      middle Oder R, S. boundary reached
      in E. Mark Brandenburg, into the
      Lausitz area and Lower Silesia.}

      Goths Germ Marshes nr Azov Sea MAB
      From the middle Oder R, both sides of
      middle Oder R, S. boundary reached in E.
      Mark Brandenburg, into the Lausitz area
      and Lower Silesia. + Gothi-Scandza.

      Goths Germ {Marshes nr Azov Sea} *{1-9}* LB
      For consistency with (1-9) and (110-49).

      Goths Germ NW of Black Sea State between
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea
      of Azov, centered on lower Dnepr R.
      From the marshes nr Azov Sea. *{900-488}*

      Goths Germ {NW of Black Sea State betweenLB
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea
      of Azov, centered on lower Dnepr
      R.} *{11-55}*
      For consistency with (11-55) & (110-49).

      Goths Germ Dacia & Illyria AAB
      From NW of Black Sea State between
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea of
      Azov, centered on lower Dnepr R. *{900-
      489}*

      Goths Germ Thrace AAB
      From NW of Black Sea State between
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea of
      Azov, centered on lower Dnepr R. *{900-
      489}*

      Musulmani Slav Macedonia & Bosnia FormYug LB
      Originated from conversion of Bogumiles to
      Islam. Some Turkish admixture. Also
      slavicized Vlach-Romani ethnos converted
      to Islam. Possibly some Gothic elements as
      well. Sources (51-145), (114-4), and (114-
      23). End date: still present.

      The differentiation of
      Goths in W & E branches occurred about 240
      AD. The W branch was first called
      Terwingians, later Visigoths. The E branch
      first Greuthungi, then Ostrogoths.
      We call them by their later names as of
      240 AD.

      Ostrogoths Germ {NW of Black Sea State between
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea
      of Azov, centered on lower Dnepr
      R.} *{900-489}* See reference 1
      for exact border between
      Terwingians (W. Goths) and
      Greuthungi (E. Goths).
      For consistency with (900-489) & (234-5).
      Fought with Alans. The differentiation of
      Goths in W & E branches occurred about 240
      AD. The W branch was first called
      Terwingians, later Visigoths. The E branch
      first Greuthungi, then Ostrogoths.
      We call them by their later names as of
      240 AD.

      Ostrogoths Germ Kingdom of the Bosporus (Cherson,
      Panticapaeum). This is not the
      Bosporus at Constantinople but
      that closing off Sea of Azov.
      From NW of Black Sea State between
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea of
      Azov, centered on lower Dnepr R. See
      reference 1 for exact border between
      Terwingians (W. Goths) and Greuthungi (E.
      Goths). *{1-24}*

      Ostrogoths Germ {Kingdom of the Bosporus (Cherson,
      Panticapaeum). This is not the
      Bosporus at Constantinople but
      that closing off Sea of Azov.} +
      {NW of Black Sea State between
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea
      of Azov, centered on lower Dnepr
      R. See
      reference 1 for exact border For consistency with (1-24) &
      (8-4).
      between Terwingians (W. Goths) and
      Greuthungi (E. Goths).} *{234-54}
      + {1-24}*

      Ostrogoths Germ Region around and N of Durostorum
      (Silistra, BG), N bank of lower
      Danube R.
      From the Kingdom of the Bosporus (Cherson,
      Panticapaeum). This is not the Bosporus at
      Constantinople but that closing off Sea of
      Azov. + NW of Black Sea State between
      Carpathians, Don R, Vistula R, Sea of
      Azov, centered on lower Dnepr
      R. See reference 1 for exact border
      between Terwingians (W. Goths) and
      Greuthungi (E. Goths). *{900-492}*

      Ostrogoths Germ Malorosa on Taman peninsula LAB
      Start date necessary to connect with (900-
      492).

      Ostrogoths Germ Crimea LB
      Acc/to Much: Deutsche Stammeskunde.
      Remnants of Goths, Crimean Goths.

      Ostrogoths Germ {Region around and N of DurostorumLB
      (Silistra, BG), N bank of lower
      Danube R.} *{8-4}*

      Ostrogoths Germ Balkans MB
      From region around and N of Durostorum
      (Silistra, BG), N bank of lower Danube R.
      *{8-4}* For consistency with (11-79).

      Ostrogoths Germ Pannonia It RomProv Part. migr. to B
      From region around and N of Durostorum
      (Silistra, BG), N bank of lower Danube R.
      *{8-4}* For consistency with (110-67).

      Ostrogoths Germ Pannonia Prima RomProv LAB
      End date, see (11-81).

      Ostrogoths Germ {Balkans} *{900-494}* LB
      Acc/to (11-79). End date questionable.
      Probably assimilated.

      Ostrogoths Germ Gaul AAB
      From Pannonia. Attacked with Huns.

      Ostrogoths Germ Thracia & Moesia inf RomProv The newly
      reorganized (284-305) Diocese
      Thracia. See ref 40, fig 22.
      From Pannonia Prima RomProv . *(110-67)*

      Ostrogoths Germ East Roman Empire advancing along
      the Moldava-Vardar corridor,
      threatening Salonica & Adrianople.
      Crossed RomProv Moesia, Macedonia,
      Epirus & Dacia ripensis.
      From Pannonia Prima RomProv . *{110-67}* End
      date acc/to (1-42).

      Ostrogoths Germ It (Modern Lombardy, Venetia,
      Tuscany, the so-called Marks,
      especially the fortress of Osimo S
      of Ancona, Dalmatia. Not in Alps
      or Lower Italy.)
      From Balkans. End date: death of Odoaker.
      20K warriors = 100K people.

      Ostrogoths Germ { Ita (Modern Lombardy, Venetia,
      Tuscany, the so-called Marks,
      especially the fortress of Osimo S
      of Ancona, Dalmatia. Not in Alps
      or Lower Italy.)} *{1-44}*
      At end date they were conquered and many
      deported by E. Romans (Byzantines).

      Ostrogoths Germ {Swiss part of Raetia (RP)} *{178-QB
      11}*
      For consistency with (178-11). From I.
      (Modern Lombardy, Venetia, Tuscany, the so-
      called Marks, especially the fortress of
      Osimo S. of Ancona, Dalmatia. Not in Alps
      or Lower Italy.) *{1-44}* Ref calls them
      Goths, but (11-82) implies they
      were Ostrogoths.

      Ostrogoths Germ Swiss part of Raetia (RP)LAB

      Ostrogoths Germ Pannonia I Ita RomProv later Sirmia &CAB
      Slavonia. Betw. Danube, Drave &
      Save RR.
      From It (Modern Lombardy, Venetia, Tuscany,
      the so-called Marks, especially the
      fortress of Osimo S. of Ancona, Dalmatia.
      Not in Alps or Lower Italy.) *{11-82}*
      Note: This is Pannonia II, even though
      ref. calls this their ancient homeland.
      Our earlier sources (110-67) placed them
      in Pannonia I.

      Ostrogoths Germ {Pannonia I Ita RomProv later Sirmia &
      Slavonia. Betw. Danube, Drave &
      Save RR.} *{124-7}*
      For consistency with (124-7). End date
      problematical. Ref 1 says that Gepids
      reconquered area in 536, but some Goths
      must have stayed & become assimilated.

      Roxolani Iranian Dacia RomProv AAB
      From the lower Danub? Riv.corner + Bey'd
      area (E of) Banat to Ol? Riv.along Danube.
      *{900-244}* In conjuction with Carpi,
      Alans, & Goths.

      Visigoths Germ AsMin (Lydia, Phrygia) NAB
      From Ukrainian ports.

      Visigoths Germ SalonikiAAB
      From the lower Danube & Olt Limes.

      Visigoths Germ Saloniki AAB
      From the lower Danube & Olt Limes. *{900-
      490}* The differentiation of Goths in W &
      E branches occurred about 240 AD. The W
      branch was first called Terwingians, later
      Visigoths. The E branch first Greuthungi,
      then Ostrogoths. We call
      them by their later names as of 240 AD.

      Visigoths Germ Coasts: R, BGNAB
      From Ukrainian ports. The differentiation
      of Goths in W & E branches occurred about
      240 AD. The W branch was first called
      Terwingians, later Visigoths. The E branch
      first Greuthungi, then Ostrogoths. We call
      them by their later names
      as of 240 AD.

      Visigoths Germ Bosporus, Cilicia NAB
      From Ukrainian ports.

      Visigoths Germ Athens NAB
      From Ukrainian ports. The differentiation
      of Goths in W & E branches occurred about
      240 AD. The W branch was first called
      Terwingians, later Visigoths. The E branch
      first Greuthungi, then Ostrogoths. We call
      them by their later names
      as of 240 AD.

      Visigoths Germ R, BG, Gre , Naissus (Nis, FormYug ) AAB
      From the lower Danube & Olt Limes. *{900-
      490}* The differentiation of Goths in W &
      E branches occurred about 240 AD. The W
      branch was first called Terwingians, later
      Visigoths. The E branch first Greuthungi,
      then Ostrogoths. We call
      them by their later names as of 240 AD.

      Visigoths Germ Dacia EAB
      From the Lower Danube & Olt Limes. *{900-
      490}*

      Visigoths Germ {Lower Danube & Olt Limes} +LB
      {Dacia} *{900-490} + {11-60}*
      For consistency with (11-60) & (144-1).

      Visigoths Germ Thracia & Moesia inf RomProv The newlyAAB
      reorganized (284-305) Diocese
      Thracia. See ref 40, fig 22.
      From the lower Danube & Olt Limes + Dacia.
      *(900-491)* The differentiation of Goths
      in W & E branches occurred about 240 AD.
      The W branch was first called Terwingians,
      later Visigoths. The E branch first
      Greuthungi, then Ostrogoths.
      We call them by their later names as of
      240 AD.

      Visigoths Germ RomProv Thraco-Phryg Moesia Inferior
      Haemimontus,WAB
      Rhodopa, Thracia, Scythia. (See
      map p.34, Putzger.)
      From the lower Danube & Olt Limes + Dacia.
      *{900-491}* Ref (190-3) says 70K West
      Goths resettled by Romans. Scythia added
      from ref (40-107). End date to conform to
      (308-10).

      Visigoths Germ E & S. Gre WAB
      From RomProv Thraco-Phryg Moesia Inferior, Haemimontus,
      Rhodopa, Thracia, Scythia. (See map p.34,
      Putzger.) *(144-1)* Also discussed in ref
      1.

      Visigoths Germ Albania & SE FormYug (Macedonia acc/toWAB
      ref 1.)
      From E & S. Gre . *(308-10)*

      Visigoths Germ It (See map, ref 308.) WAB
      End date acc/to (11-71). From Albania & SE
      FormYug . (Macedonia acc/to ref 1.) *(308-11)*
      Wolfram (ref 1) estimates them at 50K men,
      lower than some other estimates.

      Visigoths Germ Baetica RomProv , Lusitania &
      Carthaginensis RomProv + {Tarraconensis
      RomProv } *{232-21}*
      From I. (See map, ref 308.) *{11-69}*

      Visigoths Germ {Aquitania RomProv Roman Province of
      Aquitania (specific areas assigned
      to Goths were valley of Garonne R
      from Toulouse to Bordeaux as well
      as Atlantic coast from Pyrenees
      almost to Loire R). They founded
      the Tolosanic Empire there with
      their
      capital at Toulouse. Since 468 From I. (See map, ref 308.)
      *{11-69}*
      also in the NE of Iberian Start date acc/to (11-71), end date
      acc/to
      peninsula.} *{1-31}* (1-31).

      Visigoths Germ Narbonnensis RomProv Part. migr. to B
      From I. (See map, ref 308.) *{11-69}*
      Start date acc/to (11-71), end date by
      analogy with (1-31).

      Visigoths Germ Aquitania RomProv Roman Province of
      Aquitania (specific areas assigned
      to Goths were valley of Garonne R
      from Toulouse to Bordeaux as well
      as Atlantic coast from Pyrenees
      almost to Loire R). They founded
      the Tolosanic Empire there with
      their
      capital at Toulouse. Since 468 End date to conform to
      (17-45). Wolfram
      also in the NE of Iberian estimates between 100K-200K people
      as the
      peninsula. W Gothic component of the Tolasanic
      Empire. Reference calls them W. Goths.

      Visigoths Germ Tarraconensis RomProv , Baetica RomProv LAB
      Lusitania & Carthaginensis RomProv P.
      200K out of total Spanish population of 9M.

      Visigoths Germ {Narbonnensis RomProv } (See map p.34,LB
      Putzger.) *{900-501}*
      Start date, for consistency with (900-
      501) end date acc/to Putzger map 39-I.

      Visigoths Germ Betw Minho & Sil Riv.s & Canatabrian AAB
      coast, Cartaginense & Lusitania
      RomProv P.
      From I. (See map, ref 308.) *{11-69}*

      Visigoths Germ Galicia AAB
      From Tarraconensis RomProv , Baetica RomProv ,
      Lusitania & Carthaginensis RomProv P. *{232-30}*

      Visigoths Germ Bretagne AAB
      From Aquitania RomProv . (Roman Province of
      Aquitania (specific areas assigned to
      Goths were valley of Garonn? Riv.from
      Toulouse to Bordeaux as well as Atlantic
      coast from Pyrenees almost to Loire R).
      They founded the Tolosanic Empire there
      with their capital at Toulouse. Since 468
      also in the NE of Iberian peninsula.) *{1-
      31}*

      Visigoths Germ {Pyrenees to Loir? Riv.from Atlantic EB
      Ocean to Rhon? Riv.& from E of that
      ? Riv.in the region reaching just to
      the Alps, comprising that area
      between the Durance and the
      Mediterranean Sea.} *{17-45}*
      From Aquitania RomProv . (Roman Province of
      Aquitania (specific areas assigned to
      Goths were valley of Garonn? Riv.from
      Toulouse to Bordeaux as well as Atlantic
      coast from Pyrenees almost to Loire R).
      They founded the Tolosanic Empire there
      with their capital at Toulouse. Since 468
      also in the NE of Iberian peninsula.) *{1-
      31}*

      Visigoths Germ Pyrenees to Loir? Riv.from AtlanticLAB
      Ocean to Rhon? Riv.& from E of that
      ? Riv.in the region reaching just to
      the Alps, comprising that area
      between the Durance and the
      Mediterranean Sea.
      End date acc/to (1-31).

      Visigoths Germ E less GaliciaMB
      From the Pyrenees to Loire R, from
      Atlantic Ocean to Rhon? Riv.& from E of that
      ? Riv.in the region reaching just to the Alps,
      comprising that area between the Durance
      and the Mediterranean Sea. *{17-45}*
      Acc/to (11-74), (53-46), (167-13).
      Exception of Galicia to conform to (11-
      75). Acc/to (11-74), by middle of 6th C
      Gothic language died out. 70-80K Visigoths
      entered E.

      Visigoths Germ {Narbonnensis RomProv } (See map p.34,TB
      Putzger.) - {Septimania (See map
      I, p.39, Putzger.) (This is a
      subset of Narbonnensis.)} *{900-
      499} - {900-500}*
      By implication acc/to reference sources
      for (900-499) and (900-500). To Septimania
      (see map I, p. 39, Putzger.) (This is a
      subset of Narbonensis.) *{900-500}*

      Visigoths Germ Septimania (See map I, p.39,LB
      Putzger.) (This is a subset of
      Narbonnensis.)
      Conquered by Moors. See Ploetz p. 456.

      Visigoths Germ Galicia CAB
      From Tarraconensis RomProv , Baetica RomProv ,
      Lusitania & Carthaginensis RomProv P. *{232-30}*
      Conquered kingdom of the Suevi.

      Visigoths Germ {Galicia} *{11-75}*LB
      Start date acc/to (11-75), end date to
      conform to (232-30).

      Visigoths Germ Castile IAB
      Start date to conform to (232-30). By
      Basques or Cantabrians, but speaking a
      Romance dialect.

      Wielbark Uncert {C Pommerania, Lower & C. VistulaLAB
      area. (Probably same region as in
      (900-221.)}.
      Incl. Rugii, Goths, Gepidae, Veneti &
      Slavs.

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