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Re: [gothic-l] Gothic music...no, not that kind

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  • Manuel Gutierrez Algaba
    ... This is an old indoeuropean tradition. Bard and poets celts were a high level class in their society. ... While following a Pakistani-Indian argument in
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 18 11:55 AM
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      On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, sunburst wrote:
      >
      > "Thereupon those priests of the Goths that are called the Holy Men suddenly
      > opened
      > the gates of Odessus and came forth to meet them. They bore harps and were
      > clad in
      > snowy robes, and chanted in suppliant strains to the gods of their fathers
      > that they
      > might be propitious and repel the Macedonians.

      This is an old indoeuropean tradition. Bard and poets celts were
      a high level class in their society.

      >
      > Though how much this means to one will no doubt depend on whether one
      > identifies the Goths with the Getae.

      While following a Pakistani-Indian argument in Soc.culture.usa
      I reached to:

      The Scythians inhabiting Central Asia at the time of
      Herodotus (5th century B.C.) consisted of 4 main branches
      known as the MassaGatae, Sacae, Alani, and Sarmatians,
      sharing a common language, ethnicity and culture. Ancient
      Greek (e.g. Herodotus, Pliny, Plotemy, Arrian) and Persian
      sources (Darius's historians) from the 5th century place the
      MassaGatea as the most southerly group in the Central Asian
      steppe. The earliest Scythians who entered the northern
      regions of South Asia were from this group. Historians
      derive "Jat" fom "Gatae", "Ahir" from "Avar", "Saka" from
      "Scythii", "Gujjar" from "Khazar", "Thakur" from
      "Tukharian", "Saurashtra" from "Saura Matii" or
      "Sarmatians", "Sessodia" (a Rajput clan) from "Sassanian",
      "Madra" from "Medes", "Trigartta" from "Tyri Getae" and
      "Sulika" from "Seleucids". "Massa" means "grand" or "big" in
      old Iranian - the language of the Scythians.

      For me it's clear that Goths, Iranian and India invaders are
      the same people.


      While reading Larousse encyclopedia yesterday, I reached to
      "visigothic lithurgy" in the V century. Perhaps, you can find
      some recordings of it. The "roman lithurgy" (no music, and austerity
      was introduced in X century).

      Regards/Saludos
      Manolo
      www.ctv.es/USERS/irmina /TeEncontreX.html /texpython.htm
      /pyttex.htm /cruo/cruolinux.htm ICQ:77697936 (sirve el ICQ para algo?)

      Fidelity, n.: A virtue peculiar to those who are about to be betrayed.
    • Rudy A Carrera
      Keep me informed of this music being worked on. I d love to hear some samples if possible! Rudy Carrera Falçata-Galia http://come.to/falcatagalia Masked
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 18 12:28 PM
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        Keep me informed of this music being worked on. I'd love to hear some
        samples if possible!

        Rudy Carrera
        Falçata-Galia
        http://come.to/falcatagalia
        Masked Superstar
        http://members.tripod.com/masked_superstar2000



        -----Original Message-----
        From: sunburst [mailto:sunburst@...]
        Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:05 AM
        To: gothic-l@egroups.com
        Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Gothic music...no, not that kind


        Hails!

        I have come across only a painfully small amount of information concerning
        music of the Goths. But we can deduce some information from what exists.
        Jordanes writes:

        "Thereupon those priests of the Goths that are called the Holy Men suddenly
        opened
        the gates of Odessus and came forth to meet them. They bore harps and were
        clad in
        snowy robes, and chanted in suppliant strains to the gods of their fathers
        that they
        might be propitious and repel the Macedonians. When the Macedonians saw them
        coming with such confidence to meet them, they were astonished and, so to
        speak,
        the armed were terrified by the unarmed. Straightway they broke the line
        they had
        formed for battle and not only refrained from destroying the city, but even
        gave back
        those whom they had captured outside by right of war. Then they made a truce
        and
        returned to their own country."

        Though how much this means to one will no doubt depend on whether one
        identifies the Goths with the Getae. Jordanes also writes:

        "In earliest times they sang of the deeds of their ancestors in strains of
        song
        accompanied by the cithara; chanting of Eterpamara, Hanala, Fritigern,
        Vidigoia and
        others whose fame among them is great; such heroes as admiring antiquity
        scarce
        proclaims its own to be."

        I think we are on firmer ground here, as known Gothic heroes are mentioned.
        The cithara is a wooden lyre (OE hearpe), meaning that Jordanes is likely
        refering to a Gothic form of Germanic lyre/harp, no doubt similar to the one
        found in the Sutton Hoo grave in England, as well as a number of others.

        Jordanes indicates here that the Goths had a poetic/historical tradtion that
        we know was common to other Germanic peoples. This is substantiated by the
        existence of the very material which makes up "the migration myth" in the
        beginning of the Getica, which is obviously remnants of an old Gothic oral
        tradition.

        Also, since in the Germanic world, histories and legends of great heroes
        were passed on in song form, the fact that so many important Gothic
        personalites such as Weyland and Ermanric and Gaut survived in the Edda and
        in A-S poetry like Belwoulf, Widsith, Waldere and Deor, also indicates the
        Goths had an oral tradiditon. After all, the Norse and the English had to
        have learned these stories from somewhere, and song was the medium.

        Being a Germanic people with a poetic tradition then, it is very likely that
        the Goths made use of Germanic Alliterate Verse or some variation of it, to
        formulate their words. These poetic forms show a great continuity over a
        very long period of time. It is possible the form preserved with the
        Anglo-Saxons was also used by the Goths, and it is also possible that the
        Old Norse forms were used (or perhaps originating with?) the Goths. It is
        equally possible that the Goths used a form that is now lost to us.

        Currently I'm still trying to dig myself out from under a backlog of work,
        but producing and recording my reconstruction of Gothic music is high on the
        priority list.

        Albareiks
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