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Re: Gothic music...no, not that kind

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  • Axeage
    Many thanks Albareiks for the info!! ... ...Are the Geats mentioned in Beowulf actually the Goths?? Carl,
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 18, 2000
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      Many thanks Albareiks for the info!!

      >>Also, since in the Germanic world, histories and legends of great
      >>heroes were passed on in song form, the fact that so many important
      >>Gothic personalites such as Weyland and Ermanric and Gaut survived
      >>in the Edda and in A-S poetry like Belwoulf, Widsith, Waldere and
      >>Deor, also indicates the Goths had an oral tradiditon. After all,
      >>the Norse and the English had to have learned these stories from
      >>somewhere, and song was the medium.

      ...Are the "Geats" mentioned in Beowulf actually the Goths??


      Carl,
    • Manuel Gutierrez Algaba
      ... This is an old indoeuropean tradition. Bard and poets celts were a high level class in their society. ... While following a Pakistani-Indian argument in
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 18, 2000
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        On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, sunburst wrote:
        >
        > "Thereupon those priests of the Goths that are called the Holy Men suddenly
        > opened
        > the gates of Odessus and came forth to meet them. They bore harps and were
        > clad in
        > snowy robes, and chanted in suppliant strains to the gods of their fathers
        > that they
        > might be propitious and repel the Macedonians.

        This is an old indoeuropean tradition. Bard and poets celts were
        a high level class in their society.

        >
        > Though how much this means to one will no doubt depend on whether one
        > identifies the Goths with the Getae.

        While following a Pakistani-Indian argument in Soc.culture.usa
        I reached to:

        The Scythians inhabiting Central Asia at the time of
        Herodotus (5th century B.C.) consisted of 4 main branches
        known as the MassaGatae, Sacae, Alani, and Sarmatians,
        sharing a common language, ethnicity and culture. Ancient
        Greek (e.g. Herodotus, Pliny, Plotemy, Arrian) and Persian
        sources (Darius's historians) from the 5th century place the
        MassaGatea as the most southerly group in the Central Asian
        steppe. The earliest Scythians who entered the northern
        regions of South Asia were from this group. Historians
        derive "Jat" fom "Gatae", "Ahir" from "Avar", "Saka" from
        "Scythii", "Gujjar" from "Khazar", "Thakur" from
        "Tukharian", "Saurashtra" from "Saura Matii" or
        "Sarmatians", "Sessodia" (a Rajput clan) from "Sassanian",
        "Madra" from "Medes", "Trigartta" from "Tyri Getae" and
        "Sulika" from "Seleucids". "Massa" means "grand" or "big" in
        old Iranian - the language of the Scythians.

        For me it's clear that Goths, Iranian and India invaders are
        the same people.


        While reading Larousse encyclopedia yesterday, I reached to
        "visigothic lithurgy" in the V century. Perhaps, you can find
        some recordings of it. The "roman lithurgy" (no music, and austerity
        was introduced in X century).

        Regards/Saludos
        Manolo
        www.ctv.es/USERS/irmina /TeEncontreX.html /texpython.htm
        /pyttex.htm /cruo/cruolinux.htm ICQ:77697936 (sirve el ICQ para algo?)

        Fidelity, n.: A virtue peculiar to those who are about to be betrayed.
      • Rudy A Carrera
        Keep me informed of this music being worked on. I d love to hear some samples if possible! Rudy Carrera Falçata-Galia http://come.to/falcatagalia Masked
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 18, 2000
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          Keep me informed of this music being worked on. I'd love to hear some
          samples if possible!

          Rudy Carrera
          Falçata-Galia
          http://come.to/falcatagalia
          Masked Superstar
          http://members.tripod.com/masked_superstar2000



          -----Original Message-----
          From: sunburst [mailto:sunburst@...]
          Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:05 AM
          To: gothic-l@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Gothic music...no, not that kind


          Hails!

          I have come across only a painfully small amount of information concerning
          music of the Goths. But we can deduce some information from what exists.
          Jordanes writes:

          "Thereupon those priests of the Goths that are called the Holy Men suddenly
          opened
          the gates of Odessus and came forth to meet them. They bore harps and were
          clad in
          snowy robes, and chanted in suppliant strains to the gods of their fathers
          that they
          might be propitious and repel the Macedonians. When the Macedonians saw them
          coming with such confidence to meet them, they were astonished and, so to
          speak,
          the armed were terrified by the unarmed. Straightway they broke the line
          they had
          formed for battle and not only refrained from destroying the city, but even
          gave back
          those whom they had captured outside by right of war. Then they made a truce
          and
          returned to their own country."

          Though how much this means to one will no doubt depend on whether one
          identifies the Goths with the Getae. Jordanes also writes:

          "In earliest times they sang of the deeds of their ancestors in strains of
          song
          accompanied by the cithara; chanting of Eterpamara, Hanala, Fritigern,
          Vidigoia and
          others whose fame among them is great; such heroes as admiring antiquity
          scarce
          proclaims its own to be."

          I think we are on firmer ground here, as known Gothic heroes are mentioned.
          The cithara is a wooden lyre (OE hearpe), meaning that Jordanes is likely
          refering to a Gothic form of Germanic lyre/harp, no doubt similar to the one
          found in the Sutton Hoo grave in England, as well as a number of others.

          Jordanes indicates here that the Goths had a poetic/historical tradtion that
          we know was common to other Germanic peoples. This is substantiated by the
          existence of the very material which makes up "the migration myth" in the
          beginning of the Getica, which is obviously remnants of an old Gothic oral
          tradition.

          Also, since in the Germanic world, histories and legends of great heroes
          were passed on in song form, the fact that so many important Gothic
          personalites such as Weyland and Ermanric and Gaut survived in the Edda and
          in A-S poetry like Belwoulf, Widsith, Waldere and Deor, also indicates the
          Goths had an oral tradiditon. After all, the Norse and the English had to
          have learned these stories from somewhere, and song was the medium.

          Being a Germanic people with a poetic tradition then, it is very likely that
          the Goths made use of Germanic Alliterate Verse or some variation of it, to
          formulate their words. These poetic forms show a great continuity over a
          very long period of time. It is possible the form preserved with the
          Anglo-Saxons was also used by the Goths, and it is also possible that the
          Old Norse forms were used (or perhaps originating with?) the Goths. It is
          equally possible that the Goths used a form that is now lost to us.

          Currently I'm still trying to dig myself out from under a backlog of work,
          but producing and recording my reconstruction of Gothic music is high on the
          priority list.

          Albareiks
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