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[gothic-l] Re: Chatti, Cherusci, Suebi

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  • Keth
    ... Borg is also related to the word for mountain. A nearby mountain was also frequently used as oppidum or place to take refuge for the local population
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 5 6:41 PM
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      Tim O'Neill wrote:

      >>
      >> I've wondered what the name of the Burgundians was originally. I take
      >> it the 'burg-' element refers to a fortress or fortresses, but what
      >> about the ending?

      "Borg" is also related to the word for mountain.
      A nearby mountain was also frequently used as "oppidum"
      or place to take refuge for the local population in
      times of trouble.

      "-und" is a suffix that is often said "to have no meaning".
      Nevertheless, the "-und" suffix is often found in names for
      islands.

      If I recall correctly, "Borgund" is simply an older name for Bornholm.
      But the name "Borgund" occurs elsewhere too, for example as the name
      of the famous stave church on the Filefjell road in Norway. And if you
      take a look at the site of this old church, you will see that it
      is indeed located beneath a huge mountain.


      But to conclude from a single coinciding Nomen, that this has
      any implications for the migration of a whole nation, is of
      course entirely false. (as has been elaborated)


      >> And are the tentative reconstructions I've already mentioned
      >> (*Markomannanaz, *Thiudanz and *Hari) close to the mark?
      >> Thanks in advance,
      >>
      These seem fairly easy. "Mark" like in "Denmark", "mann" like in "maðr",
      "Thiud" like in "Þjóð", "Har" like in "Harald"... is that what you
      meant?

      Best regards
      Keth
    • got@yesbox.net
      john otis wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?start=1796 Godana dag John! I think this a initiative to
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 11 9:37 AM
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        "john otis" <viking97-@...> wrote:
        original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?start=1796

        Godana dag John!
        I think this a initiative to support. It´s better to try, than actually
        not doing it. I appreciate this and I agree on most of this, but I
        have a question about "thi:na". Since it is dein and deine(pl.)in
        Gotlandic(gutniske). Could it be possible that gothic had a diftongue
        there too?
        (For)ever and ever "e ok e" in 13th c gotlandic "gutasagu", seems to
        support the pronounciation of "aiwins" as e:wins!
        Auk is also spelt and pronounced ' auk ' in ON, but of course it could
        have been o:k in gothic. Do you or anybody else has an opinion?
        This was very interesting thanks again.




        Gutwulfs


        > Check this out- this is a translation of The Our Father in Gothic.
        The
        > translation is by Lowlands-L Administrator mailto:sassisch@...
        > attar unsar thu in himinam
        > 'atar 'unsar Tu in 'himinam
        > weihnai namo thein
        > 'wi:Cne: 'namo Ti:n
        > quimai thiundinassus theins
        > 'kwime: 'Tjundinasus Ti:ns
        > wairthai wilja theins
        > 'we:rTe: 'wilja Ti:ns
        > swe in himina jah ana airthai
        > swe in 'himina jax 'ana 'e:rTe:
        > hlaif unsarana thana sinteinan gif uns himma daga
        > xle:f'unsarana 'Tana 'sinti:nan gif uns 'himma 'daGa
        > jah aflet uns thatai skulans sijaima
        > jax 'aflet uns 'Tate: 'skulans 'sije:ma
        > swaswe jah weis afletam thaim skulan unsaraim
        > 'swaswe jax wi:s 'afletam Te:m 'skulan 'unsare:m
        > jah ni briggais uns in fraistubnjai
        > jax ni 'briNe:s uns in 'fre:stubnje:
        > auk lausai uns of thamma ubilin
        > o:k 'lo:se: uns of 'Tamma 'uBilin
        > unte thina ist thiudangardi jah mahts jah wulthus in aiwins amen
        > 'unte 'Tina ist 'TjudaN,garDi jax maxts jax 'wulTus in e:wins 'amen
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Tim O'Neill <scatha@...>
        > To: <gothic-l@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 4:17 PM
        > Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Chatti, Cherusci, Suebi
        >
        >
        > > Bertil Häggman wrote:
        > >
        > > > There are several etymologies suggested for the
        > > > Chatti. Nonen has been generally accepted. Most
        > > > scholars agree that the modern 'Hesse' in some way
        > > > is connected.
        > >
        > > Any guesses as to what an early West Germanic form of the name may
        have
        > > been?
        > >
        > > > The name Cherusci seems to be Germanic. Derivation
        > > > is uncertain. One suggestion is Germanic *herut- (stag).
        > >
        > > So would the name have been something like '*Herutaz' or perhaps
        > > '*Herutas'?
        > >
        > > > Concerning Suebi there is *sweboz in Germanic. It almost
        > > > certainly derives from the reflexive pronoun *swe-,
        > > > (oneself) combined with the suffix -bo- (from the same
        > > > root as the English 'be'). The original meaning must
        > > > have been something like "those existing for themselves".
        > >
        > > Again, any ideas as to what form the Suebian name for themselves
        > > may have taken?
        > >
        > > I've wondered what the name of the Burgundians was originally. I
        take
        > > it the 'burg-' element refers to a fortress or fortresses, but what
        > > about the ending?
        > >
        > > And are the tentative reconstructions I've already mentioned
        > > (*Markomannanaz, *Thiudanz and *Hari) close to the mark?
        > > Thanks in advance,
        > >
        > > Tim O'Neill
        > > Tasmanian Devil
        > >
      • John Otis
        Hi, I don t have information about the grammar of the Gothic language. I am a student of the Icelandic language. I subscribed to this newsletter to help me
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 13 7:24 PM
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          Hi,
          I don't have information about the grammar of the Gothic language. I am a
          student of the Icelandic language. I subscribed to this newsletter to help
          me out with my Icelandic studies.
          I hope it helped you some.
          John.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <got@...>
          To: <gothic-l@...>
          Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 12:37 PM
          Subject: [gothic-l] Gothic pronounciation


          "john otis" <viking97-@...> wrote:
          original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?start=1796

          Godana dag John!
          I think this a initiative to support. It´s better to try, than actually
          not doing it. I appreciate this and I agree on most of this, but I
          have a question about "thi:na". Since it is dein and deine(pl.)in
          Gotlandic(gutniske). Could it be possible that gothic had a diftongue
          there too?
          (For)ever and ever "e ok e" in 13th c gotlandic "gutasagu", seems to
          support the pronounciation of "aiwins" as e:wins!
          Auk is also spelt and pronounced ' auk ' in ON, but of course it could
          have been o:k in gothic. Do you or anybody else has an opinion?
          This was very interesting thanks again.




          Gutwulfs


          > Check this out- this is a translation of The Our Father in Gothic.
          The
          > translation is by Lowlands-L Administrator mailto:sassisch@...
          > attar unsar thu in himinam
          > 'atar 'unsar Tu in 'himinam
          > weihnai namo thein
          > 'wi:Cne: 'namo Ti:n
          > quimai thiundinassus theins
          > 'kwime: 'Tjundinasus Ti:ns
          > wairthai wilja theins
          > 'we:rTe: 'wilja Ti:ns
          > swe in himina jah ana airthai
          > swe in 'himina jax 'ana 'e:rTe:
          > hlaif unsarana thana sinteinan gif uns himma daga
          > xle:f'unsarana 'Tana 'sinti:nan gif uns 'himma 'daGa
          > jah aflet uns thatai skulans sijaima
          > jax 'aflet uns 'Tate: 'skulans 'sije:ma
          > swaswe jah weis afletam thaim skulan unsaraim
          > 'swaswe jax wi:s 'afletam Te:m 'skulan 'unsare:m
          > jah ni briggais uns in fraistubnjai
          > jax ni 'briNe:s uns in 'fre:stubnje:
          > auk lausai uns of thamma ubilin
          > o:k 'lo:se: uns of 'Tamma 'uBilin
          > unte thina ist thiudangardi jah mahts jah wulthus in aiwins amen
          > 'unte 'Tina ist 'TjudaN,garDi jax maxts jax 'wulTus in e:wins 'amen
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Tim O'Neill <scatha@...>
          > To: <gothic-l@egroups.com>
          > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 4:17 PM
          > Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Chatti, Cherusci, Suebi
          >
          >
          > > Bertil Häggman wrote:
          > >
          > > > There are several etymologies suggested for the
          > > > Chatti. Nonen has been generally accepted. Most
          > > > scholars agree that the modern 'Hesse' in some way
          > > > is connected.
          > >
          > > Any guesses as to what an early West Germanic form of the name may
          have
          > > been?
          > >
          > > > The name Cherusci seems to be Germanic. Derivation
          > > > is uncertain. One suggestion is Germanic *herut- (stag).
          > >
          > > So would the name have been something like '*Herutaz' or perhaps
          > > '*Herutas'?
          > >
          > > > Concerning Suebi there is *sweboz in Germanic. It almost
          > > > certainly derives from the reflexive pronoun *swe-,
          > > > (oneself) combined with the suffix -bo- (from the same
          > > > root as the English 'be'). The original meaning must
          > > > have been something like "those existing for themselves".
          > >
          > > Again, any ideas as to what form the Suebian name for themselves
          > > may have taken?
          > >
          > > I've wondered what the name of the Burgundians was originally. I
          take
          > > it the 'burg-' element refers to a fortress or fortresses, but what
          > > about the ending?
          > >
          > > And are the tentative reconstructions I've already mentioned
          > > (*Markomannanaz, *Thiudanz and *Hari) close to the mark?
          > > Thanks in advance,
          > >
          > > Tim O'Neill
          > > Tasmanian Devil
          > >


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        • Ben van Poppel
          Hi Andre. I m not too bad thanks, just thankful that things will be more or less done soon. The semester as a whole has been a bit of a downer for some reason
          Message 4 of 9 , May 29, 2001
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            Hi Andre.

            I'm not too bad thanks, just thankful that things will be more or less
            done soon. The semester as a whole has been a bit of a downer for some
            reason (0 motivation and too many other things on the side, most of
            which are more tempting than Uni work as research is relatively
            painless). Oh well, I've heard it said second year is the toughest
            year, so I'm sure I'll manage to stick it out! :)

            There was a Hörverständnis test on in German today, which Tina says we
            can do next week sometime. Thursday would probably be the best day for
            me; maybe we can knock them both over on the same day. I've postponed
            German lit and Syntax until the next exam period. If Thursday doesn't
            work, Friday will probably be fine as well. all depends on when my
            folks are coming up to help me cart my stuff home, but I imagine that
            wouldn't be until the afternoon at the earliest.

            Your right - there is no Accents exam. Must have got my wires
            crossed. :) Mark's agreed to me emailing him the completed
            assignments.

            I'm sure I'll catch up with you before the end of the week. If not,
            have a good weekend.

            Cheers,
            Ben
          • czobor@cantacuzino.ro
            What has this to do with the Gothic-L ??? Francisc ... less ... some ... we ... for ... postponed ... doesn t ... that
            Message 5 of 9 , May 30, 2001
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              What has this to do with the Gothic-L ???

              Francisc

              --- In gothic-l@y..., Ben van Poppel <benny@N...> wrote:
              > Hi Andre.
              >
              > I'm not too bad thanks, just thankful that things will be more or
              less
              > done soon. The semester as a whole has been a bit of a downer for
              some
              > reason (0 motivation and too many other things on the side, most of
              > which are more tempting than Uni work as research is relatively
              > painless). Oh well, I've heard it said second year is the toughest
              > year, so I'm sure I'll manage to stick it out! :)
              >
              > There was a Hörverständnis test on in German today, which Tina says
              we
              > can do next week sometime. Thursday would probably be the best day
              for
              > me; maybe we can knock them both over on the same day. I've
              postponed
              > German lit and Syntax until the next exam period. If Thursday
              doesn't
              > work, Friday will probably be fine as well. all depends on when my
              > folks are coming up to help me cart my stuff home, but I imagine
              that
              > wouldn't be until the afternoon at the earliest.
              >
              > Your right - there is no Accents exam. Must have got my wires
              > crossed. :) Mark's agreed to me emailing him the completed
              > assignments.
              >
              > I'm sure I'll catch up with you before the end of the week. If not,
              > have a good weekend.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Ben
            • M. Carver
              ... Hails! Looks like a stray mis-post to me. I m trying to ignore it. If it happens again I ll look into it. Cheers, Matþaius
              Message 6 of 9 , May 30, 2001
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                on 5/30/01 1:44 AM, czobor@... at czobor@... wrote:

                > What has this to do with the Gothic-L ???
                >
                > Francisc

                Hails!

                Looks like a stray mis-post to me. I'm trying to ignore it. If it happens
                again I'll look into it.

                Cheers,
                Matþaius
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