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[gothic-l] "jah" comes from Finnic?

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  • Francisc Czobor
    GoÞs dags izwis allaim! If there s a relationship between the Gothic jah and the Finnish & Estonian ja , both meaning and , I think that the direction of
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 2, 1999
      Go�s dags izwis allaim!

      If there's a relationship between the Gothic "jah" and the Finnish &
      Estonian "ja", both meaning "and", I think that the direction of borrowing
      was from Gothic to Balto-Finnic. My arguments are:
      1. The Gothic word can be explained within Germanic: ja "yes" + -(u)h
      "and", thus "yes and" (cf. Germ. "ja und" or "ja auch"), the sense being
      "and also".
      2. As pointed out also by Brian Beck, the Gothic "jah" is not an oddity
      within the Germanic group. I have found something related in Old High
      German: in Otfried's Gospel (9th century): joh = "and"; in Notker's Book
      of Logic (11th century): i�h = "and". (it seems that these words come from
      ja+uh, while the Gothic word from ja+h).
      3. There are many old Germanic loanwords in the Balto-Finnic languages
      (some of them reflecting a stage of the source language even older than
      Wulfila's Gothic, close to Proto-Germanic; see for instance: Finnish
      kuningas = "king", rengas = "ring", kulta = "gold", etc.).

      Fragkisks sa Rumons
    • got@yesbox.net
      francisc czobor wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?start=1252 ... borrowing ... being ... oddity ... Book
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 2, 1999
        francisc czobor <czobo-@...> wrote:
        original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?start=1252
        >
        > GoÞs dags izwis allaim!
        >
        > If there's a relationship between the Gothic "jah" and the Finnish &
        > Estonian "ja", both meaning "and", I think that the direction of
        borrowing
        > was from Gothic to Balto-Finnic. My arguments are:
        > 1. The Gothic word can be explained within Germanic: ja "yes" + -(u)h
        > "and", thus "yes and" (cf. Germ. "ja und" or "ja auch"), the sense
        being
        > "and also".
        > 2. As pointed out also by Brian Beck, the Gothic "jah" is not an
        oddity
        > within the Germanic group. I have found something related in Old High
        > German: in Otfried's Gospel (9th century): joh = "and"; in Notker's
        Book
        > of Logic (11th century): ióh = "and". (it seems that these words come
        from
        > ja+uh, while the Gothic word from ja+h).
        > 3. There are many old Germanic loanwords in the Balto-Finnic languages
        > (some of them reflecting a stage of the source language even older
        than
        > Wulfila's Gothic, close to Proto-Germanic; see for instance: Finnish
        > kuningas = "king", rengas = "ring", kulta = "gold", etc.).
        >
        > Fragkisks sa Rumons

        1."The Gothic word can be explained within Germanic: ja "yes" + -(u)h"
        I wonder if the goths like the norsemen were pronouncing ja="yes", as
        jau. Nowadays you can find that sound in only icel. and gotlandic. Has
        there also been an earlier gothic jauh for jah?

        2.What strikes me is that many loanwords from Proto-Germanic in
        Finnish, seems to have to do with trade and hierarchy. Not only
        kuningas = "king"etc., but also ruhtinas-*druhtinas=queen. Maybe
        borrowed during the bronze-age, known for their chieftainships.

        Then Gotland probably was a transit-country between fur-traders(East
        Scandinavia, Finland)in the north, amber-merchants(the Baltics)in the
        east, and bronze, weapon and jewelry-deliverers in the south(N
        Germany). This was especially intensive during 1000-500 B.C. You can
        also find shipstone-settings in Latvia and Estonia(25), from this
        period(settlements?), 375 from Gotland itself(Kiivikoski). Many objects
        are pointing at a large scale contact and influence from the scythians.
        Ackording to Pytheas of Massila 300 B.C.), there could be signs of
        "gutones", Gotland´s early role as amber-deliverers.

        The sicilian historian Diodoros, in the age of Caesar, wrote about an
        island "north of the nortwind", there the god returned every 19th year.
        This fits well to the gotlandic stone-cutmarks(stone-slabs?)from 2800
        B.C. to older bronze-age, that has been made against the moonrise and
        descendance at the wintersunstice(not sure of the expression), and the
        moons same movements at the vernal equinox(Göran Henriksson).

        http://www.gotland.luma.com


        Gutwulfs
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