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Re: Gothic word for "girl"...?

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  • Edmund
    I should have put this in the last e-mail. As to null , it is a loanword from French nulle , the fem. form of nul (cf. Italian nullo ), which descends
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 21, 2013
      I should have put this in the last e-mail.

      As to 'null', it is a loanword from French 'nulle', the fem. form of 'nul' (cf. Italian 'nullo'), which descends ultimately from Latin 'nullus' (= ne ullus 'not any'). The same element appears in the verb 'to annul' (Latin 'annullare'). The cognates in the other Germanic languages are all loanwords from Romance.

      'Zero' is likewise a loanword, through French or Italian, ultimately from Arabic 'cifr', which also gives 'cipher'. (See the entries in the full Oxford English Dictionary).

      The concept of 'zero' was introduced into mathematics during the High Middle Ages (that is, after roughly 1000 AD). The concept, like the word itself, was taken from Arabic math.

      Thus, it is most certain that there was no word for 'zero' in Gothic or any other early Germanic language.

      The best way to fill the lacuna is simply to use 'ni waihts' ('nothing'), cf. the use of 'nought' in Early Modern English.

      Edmund



      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@...> wrote:
      >
      > While off topic, I wonder if anyone is familiar with a Gothic word for "zero," if not, am I far off in assuming "nul"? Word this word agree/decline with others as 1-3 do? I feel that other Germanic languages wherein 1-3 (or 1-4) agree, there is no evidence that "nul" did, but then again use of a "zero" number also appears to be a relatively "newer" concept for ancient societies...would this explain the lack of its declension? Would "nul" be more in keeping with tradition than "zairo" or "zero?" Apologies if this should be a new thread...
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Justine,
      > >
      > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
      > >
      > > The Gothic words 'frijonds" (masc.) and 'frijondi (fem.) could likely serve as translations for 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' respectively; I have not gone through all the attestations of these to determine whether they are in fact used in this sense. There is also the adjective 'liufs' ('beloved, dear'), which one could substantivize (cf. ModE 'my beloved', ModGerman 'meine Geliebte'). Again, I have not gone through all the extant examples, but I will try to do so in the next day or so.
      > >
      > > The usual way to greet in Old English was to wish someone health, to wit 'wes hal' or 'wes thu hal' (both singular here, lit. 'be (thou) whole!'), whence comes the expression 'wassail'. Greeting by wishing someone good health is attested in other IE languages as well, e.g. Latin 'salve', and Russian 'zdravstuj'. The cognate of 'hal' in Gothic is of course 'hails'. I would suggest using it to fill the lacuna.
      > >
      > > And by the way, 'thagkjan' is a weak verb, so 'I thank' should be 'thagkja', and 'all-' in your opening and closing needs an inflection, if you do not mind my saying so.
      > >
      > > Hope this was of some help. If I find anything further apropos, I will pass it on.
      > >
      > > Yours truly,
      > >
      > > Edmund
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Haila all,
      > > >
      > > > I hate to post only when I am inquiring or needing something, I hope to someday be able to contribute rather than only posing questions and "taking" however I am quite at a loss here as I have scoured every neologism list and lexicon I can find and came up empty.
      > > >
      > > > As a girl, I would quite like to know the Gothic word for "girl" and yet the word does occur quite commonly in the New Testament as there are many 'girls' healed and exorcised though any account of the miracles is either a lost translation or the manuscript exists and I have simply failed to come across it. (I suppose it should be noted at times a 'girl' is healed though scripture may refer to her as someone's 'daughter' and not as a 'girl'.) Please let me know if I'm quite insane.
      > > >
      > > > It seems boy is "magus"? I have found that "friend" is "frijonds" though I wonder (and hope) that there would be a term equivalent to today's "boyfriend" that is not a simple compounding of the two as the English term itself makes much less since than "lover" as the terms "boy" and "girl" mostly refer to children in other contexts.
      > > >
      > > > I have also found on this group's neologism list the terms "Fráuja" and "Fráujo" proposed as abbreviations "Fr." and "Fro." respectively for Mr., and Ms./Mrs. I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this proposal and if these terms double as "Gentelman" and "Lady"?
      > > >
      > > > I would love to end my post with "Goodbye" however I am afraid I have not discovered that phrase either. One would barely guess I have spent a great deal of time studying this language since my last post... ;)
      > > >
      > > > Þagka all!
      > > >
      > > > Justine
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • ingemarn2000
      Hi, There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a mö , if young she is a ungmö .
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 24, 2013
        Hi,

        There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

        Ingemar



        > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Justine,
        > >
        > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
      • underwoodjustine
        Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Hi, There is a similar word in ON
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
          Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

          There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

          Ingemar



          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Justine,
          > >
          > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
        • ingemarn2000
          Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
            Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

            There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

            Ingemar



            > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear Justine,
            > >
            > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
          • OSCAR HERRE
            been reading wulfilas translation of the bible.......in it he calls these roman centurions hundslada.......I mean was he poking fun at them or
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
              been reading wulfilas translation of the bible.......in it he calls these roman centurions hundslada.......I mean was he poking fun at them or what....hundslada has something to do mith dogs if I remember correct.....


              From: "ingemar@..." <ingemar@...>
              To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:13 PM
              Subject: [gothic-l] RE: RE: Re: Gothic word for "girl"...?

               
              Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

              There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

              Ingemar



              > --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Justine,
              > >
              > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ingemarn2000
              Hi Oscar! If we shall continue the female path you are right about hund - dog, hound - and concerning slada it could be related to slæde, sliða meaning
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
                Hi Oscar! If we shall continue the female path you are right about 'hund' - dog, hound - and concerning slada it could be related to slæde, sliða meaning a.e. the vagina, hence dogs vagina. The drivers seat in the back of a sleigh is also called 'hundsvott', i.e.  dogs vagina. That expression is still used in Sweden among older people. Ingemar   --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <duke.co@...> wrote: been reading wulfilas translation of the bible.......in it he calls these roman centurions hundslada.......I mean was he poking fun at them or what....hundslada has something to do mith dogs if I remember correct.....


                From: " ingemar@... " < ingemar@... >
                To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:13 PM
                Subject: [gothic-l] RE: RE: Re: Gothic word for "girl"...?

                 
                Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                Ingemar



                > --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear Justine,
                > >
                > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • underwoodjustine
                A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn t help wonder where this reconstruction is
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 6, 2013

                  A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn't help wonder where this reconstruction is from, what the possible hypothetical etymology the writer was suggesting and what anyone's thoughts were on the neologism? 



                  --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect mÃ¥j, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                  There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                  Ingemar



                  > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Justine,
                  > >
                  > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
                • anheropl0x
                  Hulþa and hulþo are weak nouns derived from the adjective hulþs. The modern cognates are hulden, huldig, huldigen, etc. All basically refer to a kind of
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 7, 2013
                    Hulþa and hulþo are weak nouns derived from the adjective hulþs. The modern cognates are hulden, huldig, huldigen, etc. All basically refer to a kind of respect or admiration. OHG hulden was the equivalent of French hommage, swearing fealty or loyalty to a Lord. As you can tell, the Gothic meaning of this P. Gmc. word is different from its West and North Germanic counterparts, but the meaning is still somewhat shared between the two.
                  • ingemarn2000
                    Hellquist says about Sw. huld : Icl.hollr, Da. huld, Goth. hulþs, OSax., OHG,German, A-Sax. hold from Gmc.*hulþa-; disputed origin;... possibly inclined,
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 7, 2013

                      Hellquist says about Sw. 'huld': Icl.hollr, Da. huld, Goth. hulþs, OSax., OHG,German, A-Sax. hold from Gmc.*hulþa-; disputed origin;... possibly 'inclined, disposed, willing'.


                      If so it could of course describe somebody, boy  or girl feeling mutual attraction but it never could  mean boy or girl specificially. Normally huld  in Sw. means an attractive and soft person, normally a girl.


                      Any help with that?


                      Ingemar



                       



                      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn't help wonder where this reconstruction is from, what the possible hypothetical etymology the writer was suggesting and what anyone's thoughts were on the neologism? 



                      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect mÃ¥j, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                      There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                      Ingemar



                      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dear Justine,
                      > >
                      > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
                    • ingemarn2000
                      And yes, as remarked in another answer, also fidel, tied with conviction to a person or a case, a pesron being married and not infidel - huld och trogen.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 7, 2013
                        And yes, as remarked in another answer, also fidel, tied with conviction to a person or a case, a pesron being married   and not infidel - huld och trogen.

                        Ingemar

                         



                        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Hellquist says about Sw. 'huld': Icl.hollr, Da. huld, Goth. hulþs, OSax., OHG,German, A-Sax. hold from Gmc.*hulþa-; disputed origin;... possibly 'inclined, disposed, willing'.


                        If so it could of course describe somebody, boy  or girl feeling mutual attraction but it never could  mean boy or girl specificially. Normally huld  in Sw. means an attractive and soft person, normally a girl.


                        Any help with that?


                        Ingemar



                         



                        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn't help wonder where this reconstruction is from, what the possible hypothetical etymology the writer was suggesting and what anyone's thoughts were on the neologism? 



                        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect mÃ¥j, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                        There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                        Ingemar



                        > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Dear Justine,
                        > >
                        > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
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