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Re: Gothic word for "girl"...?

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  • underwoodjustine
    Edmund, Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! My concern with frijonds/frijondi is the obvious ambiguity this creates, particularly wherein context is
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 20, 2013
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      Edmund,

      Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! My concern with frijonds/frijondi is the obvious ambiguity this creates, particularly wherein context is not clear (such as in introducing someone) as a friend who happens to be male/female is not introduced as one's boyfriend/girlfriend in English, and a neuter form of the noun would not do as no one likes to be assumed inanimate. ;)

      I never mind being corrected, though the "all" was intended to be in English (pardon the mixture of the two languages) I should have used "everyone" to be clearer :)

      Does one use "hails" as a goodbye as well? I feel like I see many "farewell" patterns in modern Germanic languages and can see hails working in this context but I am conditioned as a modern Westerner to expect a distinction between the two ;)

      Þankja indeed for the response, and especially for the Mac- congnate, I never would have made that connection! What a fun and helpful cognate that is :)

      Justine

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Justine,
      >
      > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
      >
      > The Gothic words 'frijonds" (masc.) and 'frijondi (fem.) could likely serve as translations for 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' respectively; I have not gone through all the attestations of these to determine whether they are in fact used in this sense. There is also the adjective 'liufs' ('beloved, dear'), which one could substantivize (cf. ModE 'my beloved', ModGerman 'meine Geliebte'). Again, I have not gone through all the extant examples, but I will try to do so in the next day or so.
      >
      > The usual way to greet in Old English was to wish someone health, to wit 'wes hal' or 'wes thu hal' (both singular here, lit. 'be (thou) whole!'), whence comes the expression 'wassail'. Greeting by wishing someone good health is attested in other IE languages as well, e.g. Latin 'salve', and Russian 'zdravstuj'. The cognate of 'hal' in Gothic is of course 'hails'. I would suggest using it to fill the lacuna.
      >
      > And by the way, 'thagkjan' is a weak verb, so 'I thank' should be 'thagkja', and 'all-' in your opening and closing needs an inflection, if you do not mind my saying so.
      >
      > Hope this was of some help. If I find anything further apropos, I will pass it on.
      >
      > Yours truly,
      >
      > Edmund
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Haila all,
      > >
      > > I hate to post only when I am inquiring or needing something, I hope to someday be able to contribute rather than only posing questions and "taking" however I am quite at a loss here as I have scoured every neologism list and lexicon I can find and came up empty.
      > >
      > > As a girl, I would quite like to know the Gothic word for "girl" and yet the word does occur quite commonly in the New Testament as there are many 'girls' healed and exorcised though any account of the miracles is either a lost translation or the manuscript exists and I have simply failed to come across it. (I suppose it should be noted at times a 'girl' is healed though scripture may refer to her as someone's 'daughter' and not as a 'girl'.) Please let me know if I'm quite insane.
      > >
      > > It seems boy is "magus"? I have found that "friend" is "frijonds" though I wonder (and hope) that there would be a term equivalent to today's "boyfriend" that is not a simple compounding of the two as the English term itself makes much less since than "lover" as the terms "boy" and "girl" mostly refer to children in other contexts.
      > >
      > > I have also found on this group's neologism list the terms "Fráuja" and "Fráujo" proposed as abbreviations "Fr." and "Fro." respectively for Mr., and Ms./Mrs. I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this proposal and if these terms double as "Gentelman" and "Lady"?
      > >
      > > I would love to end my post with "Goodbye" however I am afraid I have not discovered that phrase either. One would barely guess I have spent a great deal of time studying this language since my last post... ;)
      > >
      > > Þagka all!
      > >
      > > Justine
      > >
      >
    • underwoodjustine
      While off topic, I wonder if anyone is familiar with a Gothic word for zero, if not, am I far off in assuming nul ? Word this word agree/decline with
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 21, 2013
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        While off topic, I wonder if anyone is familiar with a Gothic word for "zero," if not, am I far off in assuming "nul"? Word this word agree/decline with others as 1-3 do? I feel that other Germanic languages wherein 1-3 (or 1-4) agree, there is no evidence that "nul" did, but then again use of a "zero" number also appears to be a relatively "newer" concept for ancient societies...would this explain the lack of its declension? Would "nul" be more in keeping with tradition than "zairo" or "zero?" Apologies if this should be a new thread...

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Justine,
        >
        > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
        >
        > The Gothic words 'frijonds" (masc.) and 'frijondi (fem.) could likely serve as translations for 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' respectively; I have not gone through all the attestations of these to determine whether they are in fact used in this sense. There is also the adjective 'liufs' ('beloved, dear'), which one could substantivize (cf. ModE 'my beloved', ModGerman 'meine Geliebte'). Again, I have not gone through all the extant examples, but I will try to do so in the next day or so.
        >
        > The usual way to greet in Old English was to wish someone health, to wit 'wes hal' or 'wes thu hal' (both singular here, lit. 'be (thou) whole!'), whence comes the expression 'wassail'. Greeting by wishing someone good health is attested in other IE languages as well, e.g. Latin 'salve', and Russian 'zdravstuj'. The cognate of 'hal' in Gothic is of course 'hails'. I would suggest using it to fill the lacuna.
        >
        > And by the way, 'thagkjan' is a weak verb, so 'I thank' should be 'thagkja', and 'all-' in your opening and closing needs an inflection, if you do not mind my saying so.
        >
        > Hope this was of some help. If I find anything further apropos, I will pass it on.
        >
        > Yours truly,
        >
        > Edmund
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Haila all,
        > >
        > > I hate to post only when I am inquiring or needing something, I hope to someday be able to contribute rather than only posing questions and "taking" however I am quite at a loss here as I have scoured every neologism list and lexicon I can find and came up empty.
        > >
        > > As a girl, I would quite like to know the Gothic word for "girl" and yet the word does occur quite commonly in the New Testament as there are many 'girls' healed and exorcised though any account of the miracles is either a lost translation or the manuscript exists and I have simply failed to come across it. (I suppose it should be noted at times a 'girl' is healed though scripture may refer to her as someone's 'daughter' and not as a 'girl'.) Please let me know if I'm quite insane.
        > >
        > > It seems boy is "magus"? I have found that "friend" is "frijonds" though I wonder (and hope) that there would be a term equivalent to today's "boyfriend" that is not a simple compounding of the two as the English term itself makes much less since than "lover" as the terms "boy" and "girl" mostly refer to children in other contexts.
        > >
        > > I have also found on this group's neologism list the terms "Fráuja" and "Fráujo" proposed as abbreviations "Fr." and "Fro." respectively for Mr., and Ms./Mrs. I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this proposal and if these terms double as "Gentelman" and "Lady"?
        > >
        > > I would love to end my post with "Goodbye" however I am afraid I have not discovered that phrase either. One would barely guess I have spent a great deal of time studying this language since my last post... ;)
        > >
        > > Þagka all!
        > >
        > > Justine
        > >
        >
      • underwoodjustine
        Re: Girlfriend, Boyfriend, I wonder if the Crimean attested Schnos, or Schuos (Fiancé(e)) warrants mentioning, or if we are aware of any cognates here?
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 21, 2013
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          Re: Girlfriend, Boyfriend, I wonder if the Crimean attested "Schnos," or "Schuos" (Fiancé(e)) warrants mentioning, or if we are aware of any cognates here?

          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@...> wrote:
          >
          > While off topic, I wonder if anyone is familiar with a Gothic word for "zero," if not, am I far off in assuming "nul"? Word this word agree/decline with others as 1-3 do? I feel that other Germanic languages wherein 1-3 (or 1-4) agree, there is no evidence that "nul" did, but then again use of a "zero" number also appears to be a relatively "newer" concept for ancient societies...would this explain the lack of its declension? Would "nul" be more in keeping with tradition than "zairo" or "zero?" Apologies if this should be a new thread...
          >
          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Justine,
          > >
          > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
          > >
          > > The Gothic words 'frijonds" (masc.) and 'frijondi (fem.) could likely serve as translations for 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' respectively; I have not gone through all the attestations of these to determine whether they are in fact used in this sense. There is also the adjective 'liufs' ('beloved, dear'), which one could substantivize (cf. ModE 'my beloved', ModGerman 'meine Geliebte'). Again, I have not gone through all the extant examples, but I will try to do so in the next day or so.
          > >
          > > The usual way to greet in Old English was to wish someone health, to wit 'wes hal' or 'wes thu hal' (both singular here, lit. 'be (thou) whole!'), whence comes the expression 'wassail'. Greeting by wishing someone good health is attested in other IE languages as well, e.g. Latin 'salve', and Russian 'zdravstuj'. The cognate of 'hal' in Gothic is of course 'hails'. I would suggest using it to fill the lacuna.
          > >
          > > And by the way, 'thagkjan' is a weak verb, so 'I thank' should be 'thagkja', and 'all-' in your opening and closing needs an inflection, if you do not mind my saying so.
          > >
          > > Hope this was of some help. If I find anything further apropos, I will pass it on.
          > >
          > > Yours truly,
          > >
          > > Edmund
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Haila all,
          > > >
          > > > I hate to post only when I am inquiring or needing something, I hope to someday be able to contribute rather than only posing questions and "taking" however I am quite at a loss here as I have scoured every neologism list and lexicon I can find and came up empty.
          > > >
          > > > As a girl, I would quite like to know the Gothic word for "girl" and yet the word does occur quite commonly in the New Testament as there are many 'girls' healed and exorcised though any account of the miracles is either a lost translation or the manuscript exists and I have simply failed to come across it. (I suppose it should be noted at times a 'girl' is healed though scripture may refer to her as someone's 'daughter' and not as a 'girl'.) Please let me know if I'm quite insane.
          > > >
          > > > It seems boy is "magus"? I have found that "friend" is "frijonds" though I wonder (and hope) that there would be a term equivalent to today's "boyfriend" that is not a simple compounding of the two as the English term itself makes much less since than "lover" as the terms "boy" and "girl" mostly refer to children in other contexts.
          > > >
          > > > I have also found on this group's neologism list the terms "Fráuja" and "Fráujo" proposed as abbreviations "Fr." and "Fro." respectively for Mr., and Ms./Mrs. I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this proposal and if these terms double as "Gentelman" and "Lady"?
          > > >
          > > > I would love to end my post with "Goodbye" however I am afraid I have not discovered that phrase either. One would barely guess I have spent a great deal of time studying this language since my last post... ;)
          > > >
          > > > Þagka all!
          > > >
          > > > Justine
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Edmund
          Dear Justine, I have gone through all the biblical passages wherein frijonds/frijondi occur and can say that none of the contexts suggests anything more
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 21, 2013
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            Dear Justine,

            I have gone through all the biblical passages wherein 'frijonds/frijondi' occur and can say that none of the contexts suggests anything more intimate than what is connoted by ModE 'friend'. Given the absence of any known (known to me leastways) Gothic word for 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend', the best bet is to use the adjective 'liufs' ('dear, beloved'): e.g. 'meina liub(ist)o' (fem. 'my (most) beloved') or 'meins liub(ist)a' (masc. ditto).

            The Crimean Gothic 'schnos' ('schuos' is a misprint for the former), mentioned in another e-mail, would be *'snuzo' or *'snuzus' in Wulfilian Gothic, according to Lehmann's etymological dictionary (cf. ON 'snor', OE 'snoru', OHG 'snur(a)') and is glossed as 'daughter-in-law'. Given that the Crimean form postdates Biblical Gothic by over a millennium and has been subjected to considerable formal alteration, and likely semantic as well, I would not recommend using it.

            As to using 'hails' in the sense of 'goodbye', I have found no example in the Bosworth-Toller Old English dictionary that shows such a use of the OE cognate, but the cognate in Old Norse could in fact be used thus: one could say 'ver heill' ('be whole'), 'sit heill' ('sit whole'), 'kom heill' ('come whole') and, clearly with the sense of 'goodbye', 'far heill' ('go whole'), all taken from Cleasby's ON dictionary. The use of the reflex of Germanic '*hailaz' in salutations broadly is extant then for Old English, Old Saxon, and Old Norse (I do not have an OHG dictionary here, and so I cannot say anything about usage there). The idiom 'good day/night/evening' etc. appears to be a Medieval innovation: for English at least, the first attestations of this formula date from around 1400. Thus, saying 'godana dag' would be rather anachronistic. Given at least one clear example of a reflex of Germ. *'hailaz' used to bid farewell, I think 'hails' is likely the best option for 'goodbye'. If one's taste inclines to the religious, one might opt for some form of 'may God bless you' or 'may God bless your going' or the like, but then this is unlikely to be idiomatic in third-century Gothic.

            You inquired about the neologism *'fraujo' for 'lady' in your first post. I have looked at the cognates of Gothic 'frauja' and the entry in Lehmann's dictionary, and it appears that there were a couple of alternate forms in early Germanic:

            Germ. *frauja(z) (i.e. either a ja-stem or n-stem), the reflexes of which are ON 'freyjr', OS 'froio', and OE 'friega'.

            Germ. *'frawa' (n-stem), cf. OHG 'fro', OS 'frao' and OE 'frea'.

            For the corresponding fem. form:

            Germ. *'fraujon (on-stem), cf. ON 'freyja'

            Germ. *'frowon (on-stem), cf. OS frua

            Thus, given the forms above, one could expect a Gothic *'fraujo' or *'frowo', although there is never any certainty that a form reconstructed using the comparative method actually existed. So if you need a word for 'lady', the two reconstructed forms are your best bets.

            Edmund



            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@...> wrote:
            >
            > Edmund,
            >
            > Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! My concern with frijonds/frijondi is the obvious ambiguity this creates, particularly wherein context is not clear (such as in introducing someone) as a friend who happens to be male/female is not introduced as one's boyfriend/girlfriend in English, and a neuter form of the noun would not do as no one likes to be assumed inanimate. ;)
            >
            > I never mind being corrected, though the "all" was intended to be in English (pardon the mixture of the two languages) I should have used "everyone" to be clearer :)
            >
            > Does one use "hails" as a goodbye as well? I feel like I see many "farewell" patterns in modern Germanic languages and can see hails working in this context but I am conditioned as a modern Westerner to expect a distinction between the two ;)
            >
            > Þankja indeed for the response, and especially for the Mac- congnate, I never would have made that connection! What a fun and helpful cognate that is :)
            >
            > Justine
            >
            > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear Justine,
            > >
            > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
            > >
            > > The Gothic words 'frijonds" (masc.) and 'frijondi (fem.) could likely serve as translations for 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' respectively; I have not gone through all the attestations of these to determine whether they are in fact used in this sense. There is also the adjective 'liufs' ('beloved, dear'), which one could substantivize (cf. ModE 'my beloved', ModGerman 'meine Geliebte'). Again, I have not gone through all the extant examples, but I will try to do so in the next day or so.
            > >
            > > The usual way to greet in Old English was to wish someone health, to wit 'wes hal' or 'wes thu hal' (both singular here, lit. 'be (thou) whole!'), whence comes the expression 'wassail'. Greeting by wishing someone good health is attested in other IE languages as well, e.g. Latin 'salve', and Russian 'zdravstuj'. The cognate of 'hal' in Gothic is of course 'hails'. I would suggest using it to fill the lacuna.
            > >
            > > And by the way, 'thagkjan' is a weak verb, so 'I thank' should be 'thagkja', and 'all-' in your opening and closing needs an inflection, if you do not mind my saying so.
            > >
            > > Hope this was of some help. If I find anything further apropos, I will pass it on.
            > >
            > > Yours truly,
            > >
            > > Edmund
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Haila all,
            > > >
            > > > I hate to post only when I am inquiring or needing something, I hope to someday be able to contribute rather than only posing questions and "taking" however I am quite at a loss here as I have scoured every neologism list and lexicon I can find and came up empty.
            > > >
            > > > As a girl, I would quite like to know the Gothic word for "girl" and yet the word does occur quite commonly in the New Testament as there are many 'girls' healed and exorcised though any account of the miracles is either a lost translation or the manuscript exists and I have simply failed to come across it. (I suppose it should be noted at times a 'girl' is healed though scripture may refer to her as someone's 'daughter' and not as a 'girl'.) Please let me know if I'm quite insane.
            > > >
            > > > It seems boy is "magus"? I have found that "friend" is "frijonds" though I wonder (and hope) that there would be a term equivalent to today's "boyfriend" that is not a simple compounding of the two as the English term itself makes much less since than "lover" as the terms "boy" and "girl" mostly refer to children in other contexts.
            > > >
            > > > I have also found on this group's neologism list the terms "Fráuja" and "Fráujo" proposed as abbreviations "Fr." and "Fro." respectively for Mr., and Ms./Mrs. I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this proposal and if these terms double as "Gentelman" and "Lady"?
            > > >
            > > > I would love to end my post with "Goodbye" however I am afraid I have not discovered that phrase either. One would barely guess I have spent a great deal of time studying this language since my last post... ;)
            > > >
            > > > Þagka all!
            > > >
            > > > Justine
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Edmund
            I should have put this in the last e-mail. As to null , it is a loanword from French nulle , the fem. form of nul (cf. Italian nullo ), which descends
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 21, 2013
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              I should have put this in the last e-mail.

              As to 'null', it is a loanword from French 'nulle', the fem. form of 'nul' (cf. Italian 'nullo'), which descends ultimately from Latin 'nullus' (= ne ullus 'not any'). The same element appears in the verb 'to annul' (Latin 'annullare'). The cognates in the other Germanic languages are all loanwords from Romance.

              'Zero' is likewise a loanword, through French or Italian, ultimately from Arabic 'cifr', which also gives 'cipher'. (See the entries in the full Oxford English Dictionary).

              The concept of 'zero' was introduced into mathematics during the High Middle Ages (that is, after roughly 1000 AD). The concept, like the word itself, was taken from Arabic math.

              Thus, it is most certain that there was no word for 'zero' in Gothic or any other early Germanic language.

              The best way to fill the lacuna is simply to use 'ni waihts' ('nothing'), cf. the use of 'nought' in Early Modern English.

              Edmund



              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@...> wrote:
              >
              > While off topic, I wonder if anyone is familiar with a Gothic word for "zero," if not, am I far off in assuming "nul"? Word this word agree/decline with others as 1-3 do? I feel that other Germanic languages wherein 1-3 (or 1-4) agree, there is no evidence that "nul" did, but then again use of a "zero" number also appears to be a relatively "newer" concept for ancient societies...would this explain the lack of its declension? Would "nul" be more in keeping with tradition than "zairo" or "zero?" Apologies if this should be a new thread...
              >
              > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Justine,
              > >
              > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
              > >
              > > The Gothic words 'frijonds" (masc.) and 'frijondi (fem.) could likely serve as translations for 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' respectively; I have not gone through all the attestations of these to determine whether they are in fact used in this sense. There is also the adjective 'liufs' ('beloved, dear'), which one could substantivize (cf. ModE 'my beloved', ModGerman 'meine Geliebte'). Again, I have not gone through all the extant examples, but I will try to do so in the next day or so.
              > >
              > > The usual way to greet in Old English was to wish someone health, to wit 'wes hal' or 'wes thu hal' (both singular here, lit. 'be (thou) whole!'), whence comes the expression 'wassail'. Greeting by wishing someone good health is attested in other IE languages as well, e.g. Latin 'salve', and Russian 'zdravstuj'. The cognate of 'hal' in Gothic is of course 'hails'. I would suggest using it to fill the lacuna.
              > >
              > > And by the way, 'thagkjan' is a weak verb, so 'I thank' should be 'thagkja', and 'all-' in your opening and closing needs an inflection, if you do not mind my saying so.
              > >
              > > Hope this was of some help. If I find anything further apropos, I will pass it on.
              > >
              > > Yours truly,
              > >
              > > Edmund
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "underwoodjustine" <underwoodjustine@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Haila all,
              > > >
              > > > I hate to post only when I am inquiring or needing something, I hope to someday be able to contribute rather than only posing questions and "taking" however I am quite at a loss here as I have scoured every neologism list and lexicon I can find and came up empty.
              > > >
              > > > As a girl, I would quite like to know the Gothic word for "girl" and yet the word does occur quite commonly in the New Testament as there are many 'girls' healed and exorcised though any account of the miracles is either a lost translation or the manuscript exists and I have simply failed to come across it. (I suppose it should be noted at times a 'girl' is healed though scripture may refer to her as someone's 'daughter' and not as a 'girl'.) Please let me know if I'm quite insane.
              > > >
              > > > It seems boy is "magus"? I have found that "friend" is "frijonds" though I wonder (and hope) that there would be a term equivalent to today's "boyfriend" that is not a simple compounding of the two as the English term itself makes much less since than "lover" as the terms "boy" and "girl" mostly refer to children in other contexts.
              > > >
              > > > I have also found on this group's neologism list the terms "Fráuja" and "Fráujo" proposed as abbreviations "Fr." and "Fro." respectively for Mr., and Ms./Mrs. I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on this proposal and if these terms double as "Gentelman" and "Lady"?
              > > >
              > > > I would love to end my post with "Goodbye" however I am afraid I have not discovered that phrase either. One would barely guess I have spent a great deal of time studying this language since my last post... ;)
              > > >
              > > > Þagka all!
              > > >
              > > > Justine
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • ingemarn2000
              Hi, There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a mö , if young she is a ungmö .
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 24, 2013
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                Hi,

                There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                Ingemar



                > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear Justine,
                > >
                > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
              • underwoodjustine
                Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Hi, There is a similar word in ON
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
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                  Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                  There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                  Ingemar



                  > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Justine,
                  > >
                  > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
                • ingemarn2000
                  Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
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                    Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                    There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                    Ingemar



                    > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dear Justine,
                    > >
                    > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
                  • OSCAR HERRE
                    been reading wulfilas translation of the bible.......in it he calls these roman centurions hundslada.......I mean was he poking fun at them or
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
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                      been reading wulfilas translation of the bible.......in it he calls these roman centurions hundslada.......I mean was he poking fun at them or what....hundslada has something to do mith dogs if I remember correct.....


                      From: "ingemar@..." <ingemar@...>
                      To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:13 PM
                      Subject: [gothic-l] RE: RE: Re: Gothic word for "girl"...?

                       
                      Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                      There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                      Ingemar



                      > --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dear Justine,
                      > >
                      > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ingemarn2000
                      Hi Oscar! If we shall continue the female path you are right about hund - dog, hound - and concerning slada it could be related to slæde, sliða meaning
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
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                        Hi Oscar! If we shall continue the female path you are right about 'hund' - dog, hound - and concerning slada it could be related to slæde, sliða meaning a.e. the vagina, hence dogs vagina. The drivers seat in the back of a sleigh is also called 'hundsvott', i.e.  dogs vagina. That expression is still used in Sweden among older people. Ingemar   --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <duke.co@...> wrote: been reading wulfilas translation of the bible.......in it he calls these roman centurions hundslada.......I mean was he poking fun at them or what....hundslada has something to do mith dogs if I remember correct.....


                        From: " ingemar@... " < ingemar@... >
                        To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:13 PM
                        Subject: [gothic-l] RE: RE: Re: Gothic word for "girl"...?

                         
                        Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect måj, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                        There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                        Ingemar



                        > --- In mailto:gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Dear Justine,
                        > >
                        > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • underwoodjustine
                        A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn t help wonder where this reconstruction is
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 6, 2013
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                          A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn't help wonder where this reconstruction is from, what the possible hypothetical etymology the writer was suggesting and what anyone's thoughts were on the neologism? 



                          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect mÃ¥j, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                          There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                          Ingemar



                          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Dear Justine,
                          > >
                          > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
                        • anheropl0x
                          Hulþa and hulþo are weak nouns derived from the adjective hulþs. The modern cognates are hulden, huldig, huldigen, etc. All basically refer to a kind of
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 7, 2013
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                            Hulþa and hulþo are weak nouns derived from the adjective hulþs. The modern cognates are hulden, huldig, huldigen, etc. All basically refer to a kind of respect or admiration. OHG hulden was the equivalent of French hommage, swearing fealty or loyalty to a Lord. As you can tell, the Gothic meaning of this P. Gmc. word is different from its West and North Germanic counterparts, but the meaning is still somewhat shared between the two.
                          • ingemarn2000
                            Hellquist says about Sw. huld : Icl.hollr, Da. huld, Goth. hulþs, OSax., OHG,German, A-Sax. hold from Gmc.*hulþa-; disputed origin;... possibly inclined,
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 7, 2013
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                              Hellquist says about Sw. 'huld': Icl.hollr, Da. huld, Goth. hulþs, OSax., OHG,German, A-Sax. hold from Gmc.*hulþa-; disputed origin;... possibly 'inclined, disposed, willing'.


                              If so it could of course describe somebody, boy  or girl feeling mutual attraction but it never could  mean boy or girl specificially. Normally huld  in Sw. means an attractive and soft person, normally a girl.


                              Any help with that?


                              Ingemar



                               



                              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn't help wonder where this reconstruction is from, what the possible hypothetical etymology the writer was suggesting and what anyone's thoughts were on the neologism? 



                              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect mÃ¥j, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                              There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                              Ingemar



                              > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dear Justine,
                              > >
                              > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
                            • ingemarn2000
                              And yes, as remarked in another answer, also fidel, tied with conviction to a person or a case, a pesron being married and not infidel - huld och trogen.
                              Message 14 of 17 , Sep 7, 2013
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                                And yes, as remarked in another answer, also fidel, tied with conviction to a person or a case, a pesron being married   and not infidel - huld och trogen.

                                Ingemar

                                 



                                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                Hellquist says about Sw. 'huld': Icl.hollr, Da. huld, Goth. hulþs, OSax., OHG,German, A-Sax. hold from Gmc.*hulþa-; disputed origin;... possibly 'inclined, disposed, willing'.


                                If so it could of course describe somebody, boy  or girl feeling mutual attraction but it never could  mean boy or girl specificially. Normally huld  in Sw. means an attractive and soft person, normally a girl.


                                Any help with that?


                                Ingemar



                                 



                                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                A list of neologisms I just ran across suggests hultha/hultho (hulþa/hulþo) for boyfriend/girlfriend, I couldn't help wonder where this reconstruction is from, what the possible hypothetical etymology the writer was suggesting and what anyone's thoughts were on the neologism? 



                                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                Mö, Hellquist etym. ordbok: from Icl.maer,ack. mey, no. møy, Gotl.dialect mÃ¥j, da. mø,Goth.mawi (gen.maujos); from PtGm.mawi of *mazwi- with fem.suffi i till PtGm. *mazu=Goth. magus, OS. magu... Ingemar --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, <underwoodjustine@...> wrote: Is mö related at all to mawi?   They seem like possible cognates? --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , <ingemar@...> wrote: Hi,

                                There is a similar word in ON and also modern Nordic for an umarried woman, originally also a virgin, who is called a 'mö', if young she is a 'ungmö'.

                                Ingemar



                                > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com , "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Dear Justine,
                                > >
                                > > The Gothic word for girl is 'mawi' (fem. ja-stem). There is also one instance of the diminutive 'mawilo' (fem. n-stem) 'little girl'. The latter is kin to Old English 'meowle' ('little girl'). According to Lehmann's etymological dictionary, 'mawi' appears to descend from an earlier unattested *'magwi', a derivative of 'magus' ('boy'), with the loss of the 'g'. You may find it interesting to know that the onomastic prefix 'Mac' in such Scottish names as MacDonald, MacDougal, which means 'son of', is cognate with the Gothic word.
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