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Galeiks/galeiko/swa/swe

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  • anheropl0x
    Hello! A real long time ago I translated the song Sounds of Silence into Gothic. But there has always been a line that plagued me, and it still does. The line
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 5, 2013
      Hello! A real long time ago I translated the song Sounds of Silence into Gothic. But there has always been a line that plagued me, and it still does.

      The line goes, "Silent like a cancer grows."

      What I do not know is what word to use for "like" in this use. Is it an adverb? Maybe a kind of conjunction? Basically, for the translation, I have "THaihans ___ gundX aukith." I imagine "gunds" would stay in the nominative, but I really don't know.

      But also, if you can choose which is the best to use, can you please tell me why? And when and how to know to properly use swe vs. swa vs. swe-swa and so on? Thank you so much!
    • OSCAR HERRE
       my ten cents says that swa is just and swa swe is just as or just like as.....like and the way you are using mite be used like galeikada....... ... From:
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 5, 2013
         my ten cents says that swa is just and swa swe is just as or just like as.....like and the way you are using mite be used like galeikada.......

        --- On Fri, 7/5/13, anheropl0x <anheropl0x@...> wrote:


        From: anheropl0x <anheropl0x@...>
        Subject: [gothic-l] Galeiks/galeiko/swa/swe
        To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 8:06 PM



         



        Hello! A real long time ago I translated the song Sounds of Silence into Gothic. But there has always been a line that plagued me, and it still does.

        The line goes, "Silent like a cancer grows."

        What I do not know is what word to use for "like" in this use. Is it an adverb? Maybe a kind of conjunction? Basically, for the translation, I have "THaihans ___ gundX aukith." I imagine "gunds" would stay in the nominative, but I really don't know.

        But also, if you can choose which is the best to use, can you please tell me why? And when and how to know to properly use swe vs. swa vs. swe-swa and so on? Thank you so much!








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • OSCAR HERRE
        or like silana galeikada wiehans sauhts......dont know what would be gothic fer cancer..... ... From: OSCAR HERRE Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 5, 2013
          or like silana galeikada wiehans sauhts......dont know what would be gothic fer cancer.....

          --- On Fri, 7/5/13, OSCAR HERRE <duke.co@...> wrote:


          From: OSCAR HERRE <duke.co@...>
          Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Galeiks/galeiko/swa/swe
          To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 8:54 PM



           



           my ten cents says that swa is just and swa swe is just as or just like as.....like and the way you are using mite be used like galeikada.......

          --- On Fri, 7/5/13, anheropl0x <anheropl0x@...> wrote:

          From: anheropl0x <anheropl0x@...>
          Subject: [gothic-l] Galeiks/galeiko/swa/swe
          To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 8:06 PM

           

          Hello! A real long time ago I translated the song Sounds of Silence into Gothic. But there has always been a line that plagued me, and it still does.

          The line goes, "Silent like a cancer grows."

          What I do not know is what word to use for "like" in this use. Is it an adverb? Maybe a kind of conjunction? Basically, for the translation, I have "THaihans ___ gundX aukith." I imagine "gunds" would stay in the nominative, but I really don't know.

          But also, if you can choose which is the best to use, can you please tell me why? And when and how to know to properly use swe vs. swa vs. swe-swa and so on? Thank you so much!

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Edmund
          Gothic swaswe (cf. Old Enlish swaswa ) can mean: 1) like (prep.): bithe fastaith, ni wairthaith, swaswe thai liutans, gaurai (Mat6,16) when you fast, do
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 6, 2013
            Gothic 'swaswe' (cf. Old Enlish 'swaswa') can mean:

            1) 'like' (prep.):

            bithe fastaith, ni wairthaith, swaswe thai liutans, gaurai (Mat6,16) 'when you fast, do not look sullen like the hypocrites'

            2) 'as' (conj.):

            ni haurnjais faura thus, swaswe thai liutans taujand (Mat6,2) 'do not trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do'

            3) 'so that' (conj.); for this function, you can also use 'swaei'

            It is also possible to abbreviate 'swaswe' to 'swe':

            nih Saulaumon in allamma wulthau seinamma gawasida sik swe ains thize (Mat 6, 29) not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these'

            As to 'swa' it does not mean 'like, as' but rather 'so, thus, in this way':

            swa liuhtjai liuhath izwar in andwairthja manne (Mat. 5,16) 'so let your light shine before men'.

            A further option to show similarity is 'galeikon' (class 2 verb, not to be confused with 'galeikan' class 3 'to please'). 'galeikon' takes a nominative complement (if an overt subject is present) and a dative complement:

            ni galeikoth nu thaim (Mat 6,8) 'do not, therefore, be like them'

            hwe nu galeiko thata kuni? (Mat 11,16) 'to what, then, might I compare this generation?'

            Instead of the verb 'galeikon', the adjective 'galeiks' ('like') can be used with a suitable verb; again the thing compared to needs to be in the dative, and the adjective must agree with its antecedent:

            galeik ist barnam sitandam... (Mat. 11, 16) 'it (thata kuni) is like children sitting...' (the adjective 'galeiks' is in the nom. sg. neuter here)

            Note further that the verb 'aukan' is transitive, while 'auknan' is intransitive. As 'aukan' contains a heavy syllable, the third-p. sg. pres. indic. needs to be 'aukeith' not 'aukith' (cf. sokeith, hauseith).

            Thus, your line 'silence grows like a cancer' would be best rendered as 'thahains swaswe gund auknith' or 'thahains swaswe gund aukeith sik'.

            The verb 'wahsjan' (cf. English 'to wax') would also seem to work here.

            And, needless to say, Gothic word-order is a very uncertain area, and judging from both the corpus of texts as well as the other early Germanic languages, and other ancient Indo-European languages, many permutations are possible; I have given only one, which perhaps highlights the object compared to.


            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "anheropl0x" <anheropl0x@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello! A real long time ago I translated the song Sounds of Silence into Gothic. But there has always been a line that plagued me, and it still does.
            >
            > The line goes, "Silent like a cancer grows."
            >
            > What I do not know is what word to use for "like" in this use. Is it an adverb? Maybe a kind of conjunction? Basically, for the translation, I have "THaihans ___ gundX aukith." I imagine "gunds" would stay in the nominative, but I really don't know.
            >
            > But also, if you can choose which is the best to use, can you please tell me why? And when and how to know to properly use swe vs. swa vs. swe-swa and so on? Thank you so much!
            >
          • OSCAR HERRE
            i thought swe was so.....but wulfila was the master of goth.....i should reread his bible translation again.... ... From: Edmund
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 6, 2013
              i thought swe was so.....but wulfila was the master of goth.....i should reread his bible translation again....

              --- On Sat, 7/6/13, Edmund <edmundfairfax@...> wrote:


              From: Edmund <edmundfairfax@...>
              Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Galeiks/galeiko/swa/swe
              To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, July 6, 2013, 10:22 AM



               




              Gothic 'swaswe' (cf. Old Enlish 'swaswa') can mean:

              1) 'like' (prep.):

              bithe fastaith, ni wairthaith, swaswe thai liutans, gaurai (Mat6,16) 'when you fast, do not look sullen like the hypocrites'

              2) 'as' (conj.):

              ni haurnjais faura thus, swaswe thai liutans taujand (Mat6,2) 'do not trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do'

              3) 'so that' (conj.); for this function, you can also use 'swaei'

              It is also possible to abbreviate 'swaswe' to 'swe':

              nih Saulaumon in allamma wulthau seinamma gawasida sik swe ains thize (Mat 6, 29) not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these'

              As to 'swa' it does not mean 'like, as' but rather 'so, thus, in this way':

              swa liuhtjai liuhath izwar in andwairthja manne (Mat. 5,16) 'so let your light shine before men'.

              A further option to show similarity is 'galeikon' (class 2 verb, not to be confused with 'galeikan' class 3 'to please'). 'galeikon' takes a nominative complement (if an overt subject is present) and a dative complement:

              ni galeikoth nu thaim (Mat 6,8) 'do not, therefore, be like them'

              hwe nu galeiko thata kuni? (Mat 11,16) 'to what, then, might I compare this generation?'

              Instead of the verb 'galeikon', the adjective 'galeiks' ('like') can be used with a suitable verb; again the thing compared to needs to be in the dative, and the adjective must agree with its antecedent:

              galeik ist barnam sitandam... (Mat. 11, 16) 'it (thata kuni) is like children sitting...' (the adjective 'galeiks' is in the nom. sg. neuter here)

              Note further that the verb 'aukan' is transitive, while 'auknan' is intransitive. As 'aukan' contains a heavy syllable, the third-p. sg. pres. indic. needs to be 'aukeith' not 'aukith' (cf. sokeith, hauseith).

              Thus, your line 'silence grows like a cancer' would be best rendered as 'thahains swaswe gund auknith' or 'thahains swaswe gund aukeith sik'.

              The verb 'wahsjan' (cf. English 'to wax') would also seem to work here.

              And, needless to say, Gothic word-order is a very uncertain area, and judging from both the corpus of texts as well as the other early Germanic languages, and other ancient Indo-European languages, many permutations are possible; I have given only one, which perhaps highlights the object compared to.

              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "anheropl0x" <anheropl0x@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello! A real long time ago I translated the song Sounds of Silence into Gothic. But there has always been a line that plagued me, and it still does.
              >
              > The line goes, "Silent like a cancer grows."
              >
              > What I do not know is what word to use for "like" in this use. Is it an adverb? Maybe a kind of conjunction? Basically, for the translation, I have "THaihans ___ gundX aukith." I imagine "gunds" would stay in the nominative, but I really don't know.
              >
              > But also, if you can choose which is the best to use, can you please tell me why? And when and how to know to properly use swe vs. swa vs. swe-swa and so on? Thank you so much!
              >








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Edmund
              mea culpa! The verb aukan is not a class three weak verb, as I have mistakenly treated it below. Thus, the 3-p. sg. pres. indic. form is aukith , as you
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 6, 2013
                mea culpa!

                The verb 'aukan' is not a class three weak verb, as I have mistakenly treated it below. Thus, the 3-p. sg. pres. indic. form is 'aukith', as you originally had.



                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Gothic 'swaswe' (cf. Old Enlish 'swaswa') can mean:
                >
                > 1) 'like' (prep.):
                >
                > bithe fastaith, ni wairthaith, swaswe thai liutans, gaurai (Mat6,16) 'when you fast, do not look sullen like the hypocrites'
                >
                > 2) 'as' (conj.):
                >
                > ni haurnjais faura thus, swaswe thai liutans taujand (Mat6,2) 'do not trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do'
                >
                > 3) 'so that' (conj.); for this function, you can also use 'swaei'
                >
                > It is also possible to abbreviate 'swaswe' to 'swe':
                >
                > nih Saulaumon in allamma wulthau seinamma gawasida sik swe ains thize (Mat 6, 29) not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these'
                >
                > As to 'swa' it does not mean 'like, as' but rather 'so, thus, in this way':
                >
                > swa liuhtjai liuhath izwar in andwairthja manne (Mat. 5,16) 'so let your light shine before men'.
                >
                > A further option to show similarity is 'galeikon' (class 2 verb, not to be confused with 'galeikan' class 3 'to please'). 'galeikon' takes a nominative complement (if an overt subject is present) and a dative complement:
                >
                > ni galeikoth nu thaim (Mat 6,8) 'do not, therefore, be like them'
                >
                > hwe nu galeiko thata kuni? (Mat 11,16) 'to what, then, might I compare this generation?'
                >
                > Instead of the verb 'galeikon', the adjective 'galeiks' ('like') can be used with a suitable verb; again the thing compared to needs to be in the dative, and the adjective must agree with its antecedent:
                >
                > galeik ist barnam sitandam... (Mat. 11, 16) 'it (thata kuni) is like children sitting...' (the adjective 'galeiks' is in the nom. sg. neuter here)
                >
                > Note further that the verb 'aukan' is transitive, while 'auknan' is intransitive. As 'aukan' contains a heavy syllable, the third-p. sg. pres. indic. needs to be 'aukeith' not 'aukith' (cf. sokeith, hauseith).
                >
                > Thus, your line 'silence grows like a cancer' would be best rendered as 'thahains swaswe gund auknith' or 'thahains swaswe gund aukeith sik'.
                >
                > The verb 'wahsjan' (cf. English 'to wax') would also seem to work here.
                >
                > And, needless to say, Gothic word-order is a very uncertain area, and judging from both the corpus of texts as well as the other early Germanic languages, and other ancient Indo-European languages, many permutations are possible; I have given only one, which perhaps highlights the object compared to.
                >
                >
                > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "anheropl0x" <anheropl0x@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello! A real long time ago I translated the song Sounds of Silence into Gothic. But there has always been a line that plagued me, and it still does.
                > >
                > > The line goes, "Silent like a cancer grows."
                > >
                > > What I do not know is what word to use for "like" in this use. Is it an adverb? Maybe a kind of conjunction? Basically, for the translation, I have "THaihans ___ gundX aukith." I imagine "gunds" would stay in the nominative, but I really don't know.
                > >
                > > But also, if you can choose which is the best to use, can you please tell me why? And when and how to know to properly use swe vs. swa vs. swe-swa and so on? Thank you so much!
                > >
                >
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