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Rune Orthography

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  • thomasruhm
    Hello, does Gothic have other orthographic conventions if it is written in runes compared to roman alphabet? Are differences made between ai and e and au
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 2, 2012
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      Hello,

      does Gothic have other orthographic conventions if it is written in runes compared to roman alphabet? Are differences made between 'ai' and 'e' and 'au' and 'o'?

      /Thomas (one of them)
    • Thomas Chelmowski
      Hails Thomas, As far as I know (and I am only a writer, not a scholar) the Goths had no written language until it was created with the specific purpose of
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 3, 2012
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        Hails Thomas,

        As far as I know (and I am only a writer, not a scholar) the Goths had no written language until it was created with the specific purpose of translating the bible.
          I would assume that once they had an alphabet (Greek) why would they want to invent yet another unless it would make it understandable to another reader who was ignorant of the Greek characters.  (that, I would guess, would be the Latin characters)

        That is why my question about the oral traditions.


        ________________________________
        From: thomasruhm <thomas@...>
        To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 9:46 AM
        Subject: [gothic-l] Rune Orthography


         
        Hello,

        does Gothic have other orthographic conventions if it is written in runes compared to roman alphabet? Are differences made between 'ai' and 'e' and 'au' and 'o'?

        /Thomas (one of them)




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kevin Behrens
        Hello, well, in the book of Pierguiseppe Scardigli, Die Goten - Sprachen und Kultur, 1964, he writes on page 144 that in Runic Alphabet the long and short o
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 3, 2012
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          Hello,
          well, in the book of Pierguiseppe Scardigli, Die Goten - Sprachen und Kultur, 1964, he writes on page 144 that in Runic Alphabet the long and short "o" and "e" are written with the same letter which in this cases is "o" and "e", there is no "Gotische Brechung" as in the Gothic Alphabet borrowed from the Greek Alphabet.
          Liubos goleinis,
          Kevin

          To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
          From: the_lothian@...
          Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 13:26:18 -0800
          Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Rune Orthography




























          Hails Thomas,



          As far as I know (and I am only a writer, not a scholar) the Goths had no written language until it was created with the specific purpose of translating the bible.

          I would assume that once they had an alphabet (Greek) why would they want to invent yet another unless it would make it understandable to another reader who was ignorant of the Greek characters. (that, I would guess, would be the Latin characters)



          That is why my question about the oral traditions.



          ________________________________

          From: thomasruhm <thomas@...>

          To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com

          Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 9:46 AM

          Subject: [gothic-l] Rune Orthography







          Hello,



          does Gothic have other orthographic conventions if it is written in runes compared to roman alphabet? Are differences made between 'ai' and 'e' and 'au' and 'o'?



          /Thomas (one of them)



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Thomas Ruhm
          There is a book about Old High German when written in runes. It was found out, that some books have scratched runes in the parchment. If that Old High German
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 3, 2012
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            There is a book about Old High German when written in runes. It was found out, that some books have scratched runes in the parchment. If that Old High German is very old it could still have germanic 'au' in all positions.
          • Michael Everson
            ... Well, go on. Give the book title and information. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 3, 2012
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              On 3 Mar 2012, at 21:54, Thomas Ruhm wrote:

              > There is a book about Old High German when written in runes. It was found out, that some books have scratched runes in the parchment. If that Old High German is very old it could still have germanic 'au' in all positions.

              Well, go on. Give the book title and information.


              Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
            • Thomas Ruhm
              It is called Althochdeutsch in Runenschrift . I did not read it. /Thomas
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 3, 2012
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                It is called "Althochdeutsch in Runenschrift". I did not read it.

                /Thomas
              • anheropl0x
                I would imagine that the ai that arose from e would simply be written e, and the au the arose from o would be written o. This is one of the more confusing
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 8, 2012
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                  I would imagine that the ai that arose from e would simply be written e, and the au the arose from o would be written o. This is one of the more confusing things about Gothic from a philological point of view. Why did Wulfila decide to use two characters to write a specific phoneme? I think that's something we'll never know. But this is why it is important to keep the three ai's and three au's in mind. One comes from Germanic ai/au, and the others come from e/o. According to Voyles, the "third" ai/au (in words like saian and trauan) come from e and o or u.

                  "That is, stressed /Ä« Ä", ō Å«/ â†' /ɛ, É" (with macrons)/ if followed by a vowel. E.g., EG inf. *sḗ+an 'sow' and the nom. sing. *sḗ+Ä`+z 'seed' (ev.) > Go. saian /sá½³an (with macron over á½³)/ and seþs /sḗθs/; inf. *bū́+an 'to build', *trū́+an 'to trust' > Go. bauan /bÉ"an (with macron and acute over É")/, trauan /trÉ"an (with macron and acute over É")/."

                  --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thomasruhm" <thomas@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  >
                  > does Gothic have other orthographic conventions if it is written in runes compared to roman alphabet? Are differences made between 'ai' and 'e' and 'au' and 'o'?
                  >
                  > /Thomas (one of them)
                  >
                • thomasruhm
                  I will probably just spell words the same way as usual and just ad that ng-sign. Thanks to everyone.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 12, 2012
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                    I will probably just spell words the same way as usual and just ad that ng-sign.

                    Thanks to everyone.
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