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Re: I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...

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    Hi! I would too use fram for since. Ik gasahw þuk ni fram (þamma daga) weis ufarliþum Donawi.
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 24, 2010
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      Hi!

      I would too use 'fram' for since.

      Ik gasahw þuk ni fram (þamma daga) weis ufarliþum Donawi.

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Grsartor@... wrote:
      >
      > Hi, All. About the meaning of duþe, and its possible use as a translation of "since".
      >
      > The word seems to mean "for this or that reason", "therefore". Examples:
      >
      > Matt 6:25 duþþe qiþa izwis: ni maurnaiþ saiwalai izwarai
      > therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life
      >
      > Mark 1:38 unte duþe qam.
      > for that is why I came out
      >
      > Luke 14:20 duþe ni mag qiman
      > therefore I cannot come
      >
      > Matt 27:8 duþþe haitans warþ akrs jains akrs bloþis und hina dag
      > therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day
      >
      > (Note the Gothic use of the preterite where the English translation uses a perfect with present sense.)
      >
      > The combination duþe ei has the meaning "since", but so far as I have been able to make out only in its sense of "because" rather than "after". Examples:
      >
      > Luke 1:13 duþe ei andhausida ist bida þeina
      > for your prayer is heard
      >
      > Luke 1:20 duþe ei ni galaubides waurdam meinaim
      > because you did not believe my words
      >
      > Of course, it is only a small step from "after" to "because" (post hoc ergo propter hoc), but I can produce no examples from Gothic to justify duþe in the sense of since = after.
      >
      > Gerry T.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: OSCAR HERRE <duke.co@...>
      > To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 4:19
      > Subject: Re: [gothic-l] I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...
      >
      >
      > isnt duthe the word for since......pretty sure it is....
      >
      > --- On Sun, 9/19/10, Grsartor@... <Grsartor@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Grsartor@... <Grsartor@...>
      > Subject: Re: [gothic-l] I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...
      > To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 2:33 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi, All.
      >
      > About how to say "since" in Gothic: as no-one else has replied, I offer a few
      > remarks in the hope that others with greater knowledge may be prompted to
      > answer, if only to put right whatever mistakes I make.
      >
      > What we really ought to do is see whether the available texts give us any
      > examples of how Gothic coped. I do not know whether such exist, and in this
      > state of unblissful ignorance offer the following.
      >
      > First, we have to distinguish between different uses of the word in question:
      >
      > (1) as an adverb, eg "he had breakfast but has not eaten since".
      >
      > (2) as a preposition, eg. "he has eaten nothing since breakfast".
      >
      > (3) as a conjunction, eg "he has eaten nothing since he had breakfast".
      >
      > There is also the question of what tense we should use. In a previous message I
      > said that it seems Gothic regularly used the preterite where English uses a
      > perfect, even when this perfect indicates a persisting state, and might well be
      > expressed by a present in other tongues than English (eg, he has been here for
      > three hours). If this is right, then it might be reasonable to express "since"
      > by "after". My second and third example sentences could then become:
      >
      > (2) waiht ni matida afar undaurnimat.
      >
      > (3) waiht ni matida afar þatei matida undaurnimat. A similar construction is
      > actually attested in Gothic: Afar þatei atgibans was Iohannes (Mark 1:14)
      >
      > As for the adverbial use of "since", or "after", it might be reasonable to
      > render the first sentence as:
      >
      > (1) matida undaurnimat iþ waiht ni matida afar þata. This construction is at any
      > rate paralleled in the surviving Gothic: Afar þata galaiþ Iesus (John 6:1)
      >
      > A shortcoming of this way of coping with how to express "since" is that there
      > would be no distinction between the following:
      >
      > (A) He did not smoke a cigar after breakfast.
      >
      > (B) He has not smoked a cigar since breakfast.
      >
      > In favour of the suggested use of "fram" for expressing "since" there is the
      > Gothic idiom "fram himma nu", which was used to mean "from now on".
      >
      > I hope these remarks, if not specially useful, may spur others into offering
      > their help.
      >
      > Gerry T.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Claire Knudsen-Latta <clairemargery@...>
      > To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 18:39
      > Subject: [gothic-l] I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...
      >
      > Ik ni gesahw þuk fram donaujai.
      >
      > I'm having trouble with the last bit of the translation, would _fram_ be the
      > correct preposition? And, do I need to include the "we crossed" bit or
      > could that be implied?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Claire
      >
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