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Re: Expressing age [Was: Hallo hallo!]

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  • Johann von Messer
    One thing I want to add that I found in my book by William H. Bennett is ...du usqiman all barne und twa jere habando from the Gospel of Matthew I believe
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 21, 2008
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      One thing I want to add that I found in my book by William H. Bennett
      is "...du usqiman all barne und twa jere habando" from the Gospel of
      Matthew I believe (having trouble finding it in any of my Gothic Bible
      sites, yet here it is in my book...). To me this looks like "... to
      kill all of children up to two of years having." This is why I asked
      earlier if it was possible to express age with "I have X (of) years.

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Rydwlf <mitsuhippon@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Johann,
      >
      > As far as I know the extant forms used to express age in Wulfila
      bible follow these three structures:
      >
      > - 'wisan' ("to be") + 'jere' + numeral (Genitive).
      > As in Mark 5:42: 'was auk jere twalibe'.
      > "for she was twelve years old".
      > Or in Luke 3:23: 'jah silba was Iesus swe jere þrije tigiwe uf
      gakunþai'.
      > "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age".
      > In this sentence 'þrije' is Masc. Gen. and 'tigiwe' is Gen. Pl.
      > These sentences mean literally "for she was of twelve years" and
      "and Jesus himself began to be about of thirty
      >
      > - haban ("to have") + numeral (Accusative) + 'jere'.
      > As in John, 8:57: 'fimf tiguns jere nauh ni habais'.
      > "you're not yet fifty years old" .
      >
      > - wisan + numeral (Nom.) + 'wintrus' (Nominative, "winter").
      > Luke 2:42: 'jah biþe warþ twalibwintrus'
      > "and when he was twelve years old" (lit. "twelve winters").
      > This is really a compound; instead of 'twalif', 'twalib' is used(cf.
      'twalibim', Dative).
      >
      > It is good to bear in mind the special rules that apply to the
      declination of numerals. 1, 2 and 3 are declinable in all cases and
      genders. 4 - 15 usually remain uninflected, but in some parts of the
      text they appear inflected (following i-declension with Dat. in -im
      and Gen. in -e). For tens, 20-90, the structure is 'numeral from 2 to
      9' + 'tigjus' (which is Nom. Pl. of 'tigus', "decade"). If you have to
      decline a ten, you decline 'tigus' in the needed case ('tuguns' is
      Acc. Pl. and 'tigiwe' is Gen. Pl.) according to the verb (wisan or
      haban). The first numeral is declined in Masc. and the same case as
      'tigus' (if 2 or 3, since 4 - 9 are undeclinable), as deducted from
      Luke 3:23 (I don't know if other rules apply).
      >
      > I've probably missed one or two things but I think this summary can
      be helpful. Hope so!
      >
      > Rydwlf
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Johann von Messer <furry_von_messer@...> wrote:
      >
      > > From: Johann von Messer <furry_von_messer@...>
      > > Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Hallo hallo!
      > > To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 5:58 PM
      > > Wow... I didn't think the -lif suffix was used in other
      > > numbers other
      > > than eleven and twelve (and maybe thirteen.)
      > >
      > > And dative plural for jer? I thought it'd be some
      > > really odd
      > > grammatical way of saying it. Something like 'I have X
      > > years' or the
      > > like. But thank you for this! I've something to work
      > > off of now. :D
      > >
      > > How about the rest of the stuff?
      > >
      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA
      > > <duke.co@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > ik im ahtauliff jeram....i am 18 years.....ik im
      > > niunliff jeram...i
      > > am nineteen years old...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe,
      > > send a blank email to
      > > <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Johann von Messer
      Also, can someone please explain to me the very weird (to me) placements of definite articles? In one of my books is the dedication Qenai meinai þizai
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 24, 2008
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        Also, can someone please explain to me the very weird (to me)
        placements of definite articles? In one of my books is the dedication
        "Qenai meinai þizai liuboston" which is obviously "To my dearest
        wife." But that is the definite article doing in there, yet no
        preposition? I have seen this is a few other places such as

        Ahma sa weiha - The Holy Spirit
        Hardeis sa goða - the good shepherd
        "...ibai aufto distairai wein þata niujo þans balgins." - "...lest
        perchance the new wine burst the bottles."


        There's also this that I have trouble grasping from Mark 4:5
        "anþaruþþan gadraus ana stainahamma, þarei ni haibada airþa managa,
        jah suns urrann in þizei ni haibada diupaizos airþos"
        "And another fell on a stony place, where there was not much soil, and
        soon rose up because of not having depth of earth."
        (("and another fell on stony place, where not had soil much, and soon
        rose up because not had deep of soil")) Why is airþa in the genitive
        at the end? Is it because of the phrase 'in þizei?' And if so, why
        does 'in' make the article genitive?

        Also, I'm thinking about translating a Christmas song or two, just for
        the hell of it. Should I do the translated, traditional English
        version of Silent Night or the original 1816 German lyrics?
      • Ingemar Nordgren
        Hi Johann! It is as far I can see not a question of definite article but just a clarification of what yoy mean with the shepher, which shepherd. Hardeis is
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 25, 2008
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          Hi Johann!

          It is as far I can see not a question of definite article but just a
          clarification of what yoy mean with the shepher, which shepherd.

          Hardeis is like Sw. herden already in definite form (herde,-n) since
          it comes in the end, not in front. The good, den gode tells just
          which shepherd, herde. In Sw. accordingly 'herden-den gode'or 'den
          gode herden', but indefinite it is 'en god herde', 'a good shepherd'.
          This is a great similarity between Gothic and Scandinavian languages.

          From a non linguist
          Ingemar


          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Johann von Messer"
          <furry_von_messer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Also, can someone please explain to me the very weird (to me)
          > placements of definite articles? In one of my books is the
          dedication
          > "Qenai meinai þizai liuboston" which is obviously "To my dearest
          > wife." But that is the definite article doing in there, yet no
          > preposition? I have seen this is a few other places such as
          >
          > Ahma sa weiha - The Holy Spirit
          > Hardeis sa goða - the good shepherd
          > "...ibai aufto distairai wein þata niujo þans balgins." - "...lest
          > perchance the new wine burst the bottles."
          >
          >
          > There's also this that I have trouble grasping from Mark 4:5
          > "anþaruþþan gadraus ana stainahamma, þarei ni haibada airþa managa,
          > jah suns urrann in þizei ni haibada diupaizos airþos"
          > "And another fell on a stony place, where there was not much soil,
          and
          > soon rose up because of not having depth of earth."
          > (("and another fell on stony place, where not had soil much, and
          soon
          > rose up because not had deep of soil")) Why is airþa in the genitive
          > at the end? Is it because of the phrase 'in þizei?' And if so, why
          > does 'in' make the article genitive?
          >
          > Also, I'm thinking about translating a Christmas song or two, just
          for
          > the hell of it. Should I do the translated, traditional English
          > version of Silent Night or the original 1816 German lyrics?
          >
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