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Tilarids -> sdiralit?

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  • gutdwala
    Everytime I see a pic of the spearhead of Kovell, there s always some text mentioning that it s read right to left. Is it possible that the photo is just a
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 4, 2008
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      Everytime I see a pic of the spearhead of Kovell, there's always some
      text mentioning that it's read right to left. Is it possible that the
      photo is just a mirror image? The L, R, S and A runes are all flipped,
      but if I just flip the image, it reads left to right, with the runes
      facing the right way. The logical conclusion would be that we're just
      looking at a mirror image, but since a lot of people have scrutinised
      it much more than I ever will, I'm guessing that there's some reason
      to think it's meant to be read this way?
    • gutdwala
      Sorry to bump this, but I was looking at the Dahmdorf spearhead and noticed the same thing. This has got me really curious. Not only is the inscription read
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 12, 2008
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        Sorry to bump this, but I was looking at the Dahmdorf spearhead and
        noticed the same thing. This has got me really curious. Not only is
        the inscription 'read backwards', but the letters themselves are a
        mirror image of what we would expect them to be. If one isn't
        backwards, it's symmetrical. I'm just an amateur, but is it possible
        that the photos we have are somehow flipped? Or perhaps it's a casting
        issue, although I was under the impression that spears were forged
        rather than cast. I haven't found any information confirming that this
        is how they were supposed to be read and I find it hard to believe
        that whoever made the inscriptions would have reason to flip them around.

        T - symmetrical
        I - symmetrical
        L - mirrored
        A - mirrored
        R - mirrored
        I - symmetrical
        D - symmetrical
        S - mirrored

        R - mirrored
        A - mirrored
        N - this one is actually going the right way when read right to left,
        but would be mirrored if it were left to right
        J - symmetrical
        A - mirrored












        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "gutdwala" <gutdwala@...> wrote:
        >
        > Everytime I see a pic of the spearhead of Kovell, there's always some
        > text mentioning that it's read right to left. Is it possible that the
        > photo is just a mirror image? The L, R, S and A runes are all flipped,
        > but if I just flip the image, it reads left to right, with the runes
        > facing the right way. The logical conclusion would be that we're just
        > looking at a mirror image, but since a lot of people have scrutinised
        > it much more than I ever will, I'm guessing that there's some reason
        > to think it's meant to be read this way?
        >
      • Thorgeir Holm
        Hi group, I have some new thoughts about the etymology of the Greutungi and Tervingi. The Germanic root greut-, while basically meaning stone , is also found
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 12, 2008
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          Hi group,

          I have some new thoughts about the etymology of the Greutungi and Tervingi.

          The Germanic root greut-, while basically meaning 'stone', is also found
          in greutiôn 'kettle, pan'. Now, we know that pans like these were among
          the first forms used for baking bread. Considering that the OCS hlebu is
          regarded to be a loan-word from Gothic (hlaib-), it seems that bread, or
          at least some special type of bread, was characteristic for the Goths in
          comparison with other peoples in the area, notably the Slavs who
          borrowed this word. The name Greutungi (or griutungôs) then could mean
          "those who make bread in pans", comparable to e.g. the Rugii "those who
          grow / eat rye".

          Even more comparable to the Rugii may the name Tervingi be, considering
          that terwôn is the ancestor of Dutch tarwe 'wheat' and English tare
          'ryegrass'. This divergence in meaning makes it difficult to say exactly
          what kind of crop the Tervingi were growing that could give them their
          name. I guess "wheat growers" is not exactly any strong identity marker,
          but if they brought with them the habit of growing rye from the Vistula
          region, the appellative "grass eaters" could be given to them by others
          who didn't know this seed as anything other than a weed.

          Thus, the names of these Gothic groups might come from agricultural
          practices, reminding us that their war-like records were indeed seen
          with the eyes of outsiders, and did not reflect the way of the common man.

          Regards,
          Thorgeir
        • llama_nom
          As with other early European alphabets, it s not unusual for runes to be written right-to-left. And when they are, the individual characters are horizontally
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 13, 2008
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            As with other early European alphabets, it's not unusual for runes to
            be written right-to-left. And when they are, the individual characters
            are horizontally flipped in comparison to how they would appear when
            written left-to-right. The following examples include inscriptions
            that were obviously carved, so it's not just a matter of casting. I
            suppose that might have inspired the practice, or maybe the direction
            of writing just wasn't considered something you needed a standard for
            in those days. The examples include whole sentences which make good
            sense read from right-to-left, but which would be meaningless read the
            other way, and words and traditionally constructed names which follow
            the phonetic rules of Ancient Nordic when read from right-to-left, but
            which would violate those rules if read the other way; e.g. the letter
            'z' (sometimes transcribed with a capital 'R') is restricted to
            certain positions and could never occur at the beginning of a word.
            They include common formulas and magic words like 'alu' "ale", which
            are recorded written in either direction (or even both superimposed,
            as in the Spong Hill inscription from England). In short, I don't
            think this is a conspiracy of photographers!

            Einang stone: '(...)dagazþazrunofaihido' "-dagaz wrote these runes".
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/no-rune-einang-txt.gif
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/no-rune-einang.jpg

            Elgesem stone: 'alu' "ale".
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/no-rune-elgsem.jpg

            Kjølvik stone: 'hadulaikaz - ekhagusta(l)daz - hlaaiwidomaguminino'
            "Hadulaikaz: I, Hagustaldaz, buried my son."
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/no-rune-kjoelvik-drawing.jpg
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/no-rune-kjoelvik.jpg
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/117_Niaer19-Kjoelevik_Oslo_blinder_UB.jpg

            Fløksand knife: 'linalaukazf(ehu)' "linen, leek, livestock".

            Lindholm amulette: 'ekerilazsawilagazheiteka ... alu' "I erilaz am
            called sawilagaz ... ale".
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/se-rune-lindholm.jpg

            Illerup shield-handle mount: 'niþijotawide' "Niþjo made it".
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/099_DR-MS1995-336B_Illerup-mount-shield-handle-2_MM.jpg
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/de-rune-illerup.jpg

            Illerup shield-handle mount: 'laguþewa' "Laguþewa" (a name).
            http://www.arild-hauge.com/arild-hauge/100_DR-MS1995-336C_Illerup-mount-shield-handle-3_MM.jpg
          • Lars Larsen
            Even though its certain that the carver of the runes in some cases has tried to make it difficult to read the runes og perhaps out of magical reasons, there
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 13, 2008
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              Even though its certain that the carver of the runes in some cases has tried
              to make it difficult to read the runes og perhaps out of magical reasons,
              there may be a more obvious reason for many of the carvings. They simply did
              not see that they carved the runes wrongly. I mean my small kids can write
              their names right 9 out of 10 times, but then suddenly reverse all letters
              and not even noticing it. Many of the carvers were definetly not
              super-readers or very experienced and often forgot to carve runes.

              Or perhaps they new about the phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid,it dseno't
              mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are.
              It can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm :-)

              Maybe there were no rules in the beginning, you might as well write from
              left to right - who can tell.

              Best
              Lars
              <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1020598/grpspId=1705739206/msgId
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