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Re: Introduction

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  • Fredrik
    It s always nice with presentations so we can know a little about each other but why not just write some words here? ... themselves, so I hope ... friends, ...
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 3, 2008
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      It's always nice with presentations so we can know a little about
      each other but why not just write some words here?

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Madhukar Vichare
      <madhukar_vichare@...> wrote:
      >
      > Most of my groups encourage members to share a bit about
      themselves, so I hope
      > this is ok to post here.
      >
      > I just setup a profile on Grouply where you can see my photos,
      friends,
      > interests, and a list of my groups. You can see my profile and set
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      > here: http://www.grouply.com/register.php?
      tmg=260177&vt=170949
      >
      > Look forward to seeing your profile!
      >
      > Madhukar
      >
      > ====================
      > This message was posted by a fellow group member who uses Grouply
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    • Madhukar Vichare
      Finns (phiha means angry but wicked man), who intro­duced a birch-tree sweetener for gum, have found that the habit of chewing sticky lumps dates back
      Message 2 of 30 , Jun 5, 2008
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        Finns
        (phiha means angry but wicked man), who intro­duced a birch-tree
        sweetener for gum, have found that the habit of chewing sticky lumps dates back
        thousands of years. Last month, students in west­ern Finland found a piece of Stone Age birch-bark tar, be­lieved
        to have been used for chewing and to fix broken ar­rowheads or clay dishes, ar­chaeologists
        said. "Most likely the lump was used as an antique kind of chewing
        gum," said Sami Vil­jamaa, an archaeologist who led the dig near Oulu, (Aulanam - Lake) north of Helsinki (helihi -the sun; sina – a period of “No Moon” night
        when the small part of Moon is visible at certain latitudes). "But its main pur­pose was to fix things."
        Vilja­maa said the piece of Neolith­ic gum was found among arti­facts in a
        Stone Age village at the Kierikki (Kairavaḥ - Moon-lit-Night) Stone Age Center. "It's somewhere between 5,500 and 6,000 years
        old," he said. The ancient Finnish habit of chewing gum surged in the
        1980s when scientists discov­ered that gum containing xyl­itol prevented tooth
        decay.

         

        Egyptian
        archaeolo­gists have found what they said could be the oldest hu­man footprint
        in history in the country's western desert, the Arab country's antiquities'
        chief said. "This could go back about two million years," said Zahi
        Hawass, the sec­retary general of the Egypt­ian supreme council of an­tiquities.
        "It could be the most im­portant discovery in Egypt," he said. Archaeologists found the footprint,
        imprinted on mud and then hardened into rock, while exploring a pre­historic
        site in Shiwa (Shiva in search of water for cooling down), a desert
        oasis. Scientists are using car­bon tests on plants found in the rock to
        determine its ex­act age, Hawass said. Khaled Saad, the direc­tor of prehistory
        at the council, said that based on the age of the rock where the footprint was
        found, it could date back even fur­ther than the renowned 3­million year-old
        fossil Lucy, the partial skeleton of an ape-man, found in Ethiopia in 1974. Most archaeological in­terest in Egypt is focused on the time of the pharaohs. Previously,
        the earliest human archaeological evi­dence from Egypt dated back around 200,000 years, Saad said.

         

        I
        have highlighted my views of looking at the old concepts with new insights in
        view of the new knowledge: The subject of INDOLOGY will be meaningful.              Madhukar Vichare.

         

        Anandamurti
        JI wrote for the “Speaking Tree” (On Religion):

         

        Taraka
        (Tarkaha
        or Taaraka) Brahma wants to eman­cipate living beings, but only those who want
        liberation get liberation. When you long for liberation, the search leads you
        to the Sadguru. Every one of us has a fixed role to play. You are a character
        in a divine drama. The composer of this drama is Taaraka Brahma. An episode in
        the Maha­bharata is instructive in this regard: After battle, the battle­ground
        at Kurukṣetra became a cremation ground. At the end of the war
        some people came there from the Kauravas' side. Among them were women and a few
        elderly men. Gandhaari, mother of the Kauravas, was also there. Kuntī, mother of the Pandavas, and Krushna, Pandavas'
        friend, were present as well, along with the visually challenged Dhrutarashtra.
        Everyone was weeping. Gandhaari had lost hundred sons in the war. Krushna
        approached Gandhaari and said: "Mother, why are you weeping? Death is a
        naturallay. One who is born will die. So why cry?" Gandhaari replied:
        "Yes Krushna, you have come here to console me, but I ask you, behind this
        great event whose mind was at work? Who was the author of this great plan? Was
        it not you?" Krushna replied: "Those who have committed injustice and
        sinned have been punished. What can I do about that?" Gandhaari said to Krushna:
        "Everything you have said up un­til now is quite correct. From the worldly
        point of view, everything that has happened until now is as it should be,
        because every action must have its reaction. But my point is: You yourself are
        Taaraka Brahma; your duty is to liberate living beings. You can give libera­tion
        to whomsoever you please.

         

        'As
        Taaraka Brahma you can create and destroy as you wish. In this drama of yours
        you have created characters who are honest, ideological people. If one does
        virtuous deeds then one gets liberation. To teach the people you create these
        kinds of characters. And you also create sinful charac­ters to show how much a
        person degenerates because of sinful behavior. In this drama, you could have
        had my hundred sons play roles of righteousness and the Pandavas play roles of
        unright­eousness, if you had so wished. In that case my hundred sons would have
        gotten salvation. Now, after having made me cry, you come to console me!" Taaraka
        Brahma for­mulates his plan in order to create situations that lend themselves
        to illustrating values, to create awareness. For instance, if one engages in
        honest work then one moves towards eternal truth, and if one performs dishonest
        work then one moves towards untruth. Thereafter comes the other part of the
        story.

         

        Gandhaari
        said: "Kṛṣṇa, give me permission to curse you". Krushna
        replied: "Okay, curse me. I give you permission". Gandhaari cursed
        him: "Just as my entire lineage has been destroyed before my very eyes,
        may your Yaadava lineage be destroyed before your very eyes as well".
        "Let it be so", Krushna replied. Remember always that we are only
        actors in a universal drama. This is not our real identity. Some­one may play
        the role of a king, but he might not even have two hand­fuls of rice in his
        house. Someone plays the role of a poor man, but in real life he may be very
        rich. We ought to remember that we are only playing specific roles in a cosmic
        drama. Act according to the role given. This is a person's duty. This is a
        wrong note to end the moral of the “Cosmic Drama” – Man must keep on bettering
        his lot; learning new things, and keeping himself fit to fight against the
        odds. He must use his intelligence and apply his mind. Krushna is not
        coming to salvage your soul; man has to come up to the expectation of the Super
        Personality of Godhead- it is symbolic, you have to become Krushna.

         

        Uyuni
        is in Bolivia: On the edge of the world's biggest salt desert,
        villagers optimistical­ly scrawl "salt for sale" signs on their mud
        brick homes. In backyards, mountains of the stuff are heaped like year-­round
        snow drifts. But mining salt is no longer the only way to survive in this cold,
        arid corner of south­western Bolivia. The Salar de Uyuni is becoming a must-see for
        adventurous visitors to South
        America, changing at least
        some fortunes in the poor village of Colchani. "There's nothing here apart from salt... Tourists used to arrive
        and they wouldn't buy anything, so we thought, 'How can we improve
        things?" said Fermin Villca, who now sells ashtrays and llama fig­urines
        carved from salt stone. Stretched between distant Andean peaks like a shimmer­ing
        white carpet, the Salar de Uyuni is home to pink flamin­gos, 1,000-year-old
        cacti, rare hummingbirds and hotels built entirely from blocks of salt. Earlier
        this year, leading travel publisher Rough Guides listed the Salar as one of its
        top 25 wonders of the world, along side far better-known attrac­tions such as
        the Taj Mahal, Grand Canyon and Great
        Wall of China.

         

        A
        gargantuan explosion ripped apart a star perhaps 150 times more mas­sive than
        our Sun in a rela­tively nearby galaxy in the most powerful and brightest
        supernova ever observed, as­tronomers said. And there is one such star in our
        own Milky Way galaxy that appears to be on the brink of dying in just
        such a super­nova. The exploding star's dra­matic death may have come in a rare
        type of supernova reserved for "freakishly mas­sive" stars that
        astronomers had speculated about but nev­er previously witnessed. The
        supernova, designat­ed as SN 2006gy, occurred 240 million light years
        away in a galaxy called NGC 1260, and was studied using observa­tions from NASA's
        orbiting Chandra X-ray Observatory as well as earthbound optical telescopes.. The
        explosion occurred long ago but was detected last year after its light traveled
        many trillions of kilometers before it could be observed from Earth. "That
        sounds far away but it's actually quite nearby on the vast scale of the uni­verse,"
        astronomer Nathan Smith of the University of California at Berkeley, who led the research, said. A supernova marks a star's
        death in a spectacular explosion. Scientists say these events playa crucial role
        in creating heavy ele­ments through nuclear fu­sion and synthesis and then
        expelling them into space, seeding the cosmos with metals.

         

        The
        travel of Manu and the great Fish, a symbolic story of the Puraana, the event
        that occurred 10,000 BCE (ca): An
        event like the one involving Noah's ark is depicted in- almost every ­ ancient
        civilization or religion: Naunet in Egyptian; Manu in Hindu; Nuwa in Chinese;
        Ziusudra in Sumerian; Atra-Hasis, Utnapishtim and Xisuthrus in Babylonian;
        Deucalion in Greek; and Toptlipetlocali in Toltec. Noah is also mentioned often
        in the Qumran, referred to as the prophet ‘Nuh’. All the names are
        the corruption of original Sanskrit words used in Vedic rituals by the Āryans.

         

        For
        many scientists, the evi­dence that moral reasoning is a result of physical
        traits that evolve along with everything else is just more evidence against
        the exis­tence of the soul, or of a God to imbue humans with souls. For
        many believers, particularly in the US, the findings show the er­ror, even wickedness, of
        viewing the world in strictly material terms. And they provide for the­ologians
        a growing impetus to rec­oncile the existence of the soul with the growing
        evidence that humans are not, physically or even mentally, in a class by
        themselves. The idea that human minds are the product of evolution is
        "unassailable fact," the journal Nature said this month in an ed­itorial
        on new findings on the physical basis of moral thought. A headline on the
        editorial drove the point home: "With all defer­ence to the sensibilities
        of reli­gious people, the idea that man was created in the image of God can
        surely be put aside." Or as V S Ramachandran, a brain scientist at the University of California, San Diego, said in an interview, there may be soul in the sense
        of "the universal spir­it of the cosmos," but the soul as it is
        usually spoken of, "an im­material spirit that occupies in­dividual brains
        and that only evolved in humans - all that is complete nonsense." Belief
        in that kind of soul "is basically super­stition," he said.

         

        Greenland
        was home to a number of Paleo-Eskimo cultures in prehistory, the latest of which disappeared around the year 200
        AD. The island seems to have been uninhabited for some eight centuries till
        Icelandic settlers led by Norwegian Erik the Red found the land when they
        arrived in 982 AD. They thrived here for 450 years, after which they
        mysteriously vanished.

         ­

        The
        term tetra-pod, from the Greek 'tetrapoda,' (Sanskrit-“totra-vetram”- weapon of
        Viṣṇu- + pada means feet) refers to vertebrate animals
        having four feet, legs or leg-like appendages. Amphibians, lizards and mammals
        are all tetra-pods. The term auto-pod, however, is used to refer to animals
        whose limbs are subdivided into hands and feet, example: Humans.

         

        The
        researchers therefore believe that the capability of building limbs with
        fingers and toes existed for a long period of time, but it took a set of
        environmental triggers to make use of that capability. "Animals in the
        Late Devonian period (385 to 359 million years ago) acquired limbs with fingers
        using this primitive design, largely because their ecosystem - the small
        streams that they lived in - was new," Shubin said "It had the tools,
        but it needed the opportuni­ty as well." In yet another study on what
        killed off the beasts of the Ice Age, researchers said that an extraterrestrial
        object with a three-mile girth might have ex­ploded over southern Canada nearly
        13,000 years ago, wiping out an ancient Stone Age culture as well as mega-fauna
        like mastodons and mammoths. The blast could be to blame for a ma­jor cold
        spell called the Younger Dryas that occurred at the end of the Pleistocene
        Epoch, a period of time spanning from about 1.8 million years ago to 11,500
        years ago. Research, presented at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union
        (AGU) in Acapulco, Mexico this week, could shed light on major questions about
        the mega-fauna extinction, the disappear­ance of the Clovis people, and an
        abrupt climate change, Live-science reported. "Based on the distribution
        of mate­rial, it looks like this impact probably occurred in southern Canada near the Great Lakes, over
        what at that time would have been a major glacier, the Laurentide ice
        sheet," said one of the presen­ters, Richard Firestone of Lawrence Berkeley
        National Laboratory. They couldn't find a distinct crater, suggesting the comet
        burst in the air rather than slamming into Earth. Even an airburst should leave
        its mark, so the scientists think the Laurentide Ice Sheet absorbed much of the
        impact.

         

        A
        huge flood hundreds of thou­sands of years ago cut Britain off from the rest of Europe and turned it into an
        island, according to a new study that of­fers clues to how England was settled.
        Using high-resolution sonar waves, researchers mapped the floor of the Eng­lish Channel and turned up images of an enormous valley tens of
        kilometers wide and up to 50 meters deep carved into chalk bedrock. The images
        were similar to an area in the state of Washington where a mega-flood some 15,000 years ago also created
        a landscape of distinctive land formations - indicating that the same thing
        happened in Britain, the re­searchers said. Scientists said the study
        provides the best evidence yet in the de­bate seeking to explain how the English Channel formed and cut Britain off from the rest of Europe.
        "It showed us for the first time the ex­istence of this huge valley in the
        centre of the English Channel," said Sanjeev Gupta, a researcher at Imperial
        College London.

         

        Mexican
        archaeologists using ground-penetrating radar have detected underground
        chambers they believe contain the remains of Emperor Ahuizotl, who ruled
        the Aztecs when Columbus landed in the Americas. Ahuizotl (ah-WEE-zoh-tuhl), an empire-builder who
        extended the Aztecs' reach as far as Guatemala, in South
        America, was the last
        emperor to complete his rule before the Spanish Conquest. Accounts written by
        Spanish priests suggest the said area was used by the Aztecs to cremate and
        bury their rulers. But no tomb of an Aztec ruler has ever been found. Now,
        archaeologists said that they have located what appears to be a
        Six-foot-by-six-foot entryway into a tomb about 15 feet below ground, off Mexico City's Zocalo plaza. The passage is filled with water,
        rocks and mud, forcing work­ers to dig delicately. Later this year, they hope
        to enter the inner chambers - a damp, low-ceilinged space - and discover the
        ashes of Ahuizotl, who was likely cremated on a funeral pyre in 1502. Because
        no Aztec royal tomb has ever been found, the archaeologists are literally
        digging into the unknown. Radar indicates the tomb has up to four chambers, and
        scientists think they will find a host of elaborate offerings to the gods on
        the floor. "He must have been buried in solemn ceremony with rich
        offerings, like vases and ornaments," said Luis Alberto Martos, director
        of archaeological studies at Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History.

         

        All
        signs found so far point to Ahuizotl. The site lies direct­ly below a huge,
        recently discovered stone monolith carved with a representation of Tlaltecuhtli
        (tlahl-tay-KOO-tlee), the Aztec god of the earth. Depicted as a woman with huge
        claws, the fearsome Tlaltecuhtli was believed to devour the dead and then give
        them new life. In the claw of her right foot, the god holds a rabbit and 10
        dots, indicating the date "10 Rabbit" - 1502, the year of Ahuizotl's
        death. "Our hypothesis is precisely that this is probably the tomb of
        Ahuizotl," said Leonardo Lopez Lujan, the lead government archaeologist on
        the project. "Imagine it - this wasn't just any high-ranking man. The
        Aztecs were the most powerful society of their time," Martos said.
        "That's why Ahuizotl's tomb down there is so important."        

         

        The
        Aztecs is a term used for the Mesoamerican peoples of Mexico that thrived before the advent of Christopher
        Columbus in the Americas. Aztec
        culture had rich and complex mythological and religious traditions. For
        Europeans, the most striking element of the Aztec culture was the practice of
        human sacrifice which was conducted throughout Mesoamerica prior to the Spanish conquest Greenland was home to a number of Paleo-Eskimo cultures in prehistory, the
        latest of which disappeared around the year 200 AD. The island seems to have
        been uninhabited for some eight centuries till Icelandic settlers led by
        Norwegian Erik the Red found the land when they arrived in 982 AD. They thrived
        here for 450 years, after which they mysteriously vanished. Archeologists have
        discovered what they think are ruins of an Aztec pyramid razed by vengeful
        Spanish conquerors in what is now one of Mexico City's most crime-ridden districts. Construction workers
        un­earthed ancient walls in the busy Iztapalapa neighbor­hood in June, and
        government archeologists said on Wednes­day that they believe they may be part
        of the main pyramid of the Aztec city, destroyed by conquistador Hernan Cortes
        in the 16th century.

         

        In
        the Gothic Bible, 'þiudans' is used of a king who goes to war:



        aiþþau hvas þiudans gaggands stigqan wiþra anþarana þiudan (vipra praana-yukta pinda) du wiganna, niu
        gasitands faurþis þankeiþ, siaiu mahteigs miþ taihun þusundjom gamotjan þamma
        miþ twaim tigum þusundjo gaggandin ana sik?



        Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first,
        and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh
        against him with twenty thousand?

        Luke 14:31.



        'frauja' (Praanaaha) "lord"
        is also used with no Greek model for the noun in a military context (II Tim
        2:4). I'm not sure whether 'reiks' is used anywhere in an explicitly military
        context.



        I am not a linguist but as far as I know they were reiks also when leading a
        war expedition. Their sacral king, however, was never allowed to leave his own
        territory when the people was permanently settled, but had to order a reiks (Rushis
        –wandering Sages) to take command. During the wandering, according to Getica at
        least, the þiuðans was sacral king and he used 'kings of the army' to lead
        parts of the united army (like e.g. Cniva as Wolfram suggests) but I do not
        know their title in Gothic.

         

        The clue to the root of the
        hypothetical Gothic form though is in Old Norse 'ugla' and especially (Old) Swedish 'uggla'. These show a sound change common to North and East Germanic
        whereby 'ww' > 'ggw', as described by Wright. In Old Norse, the medial vowel
        of the suffix has been lost, which is normal, but presumably it would have been
        present in Gothic (compare 'mawilo'
        "little girl" San – mahilaa meaning a woman), and the 'w' has
        been dropped, as always between two consonants. So, I'd reconstruct Gothic
        *'uggwilo': weak noun, feminine on-stem, i.e. declined like 'mawilo', 'tuggo',
        etc. One last clue is the Catalan word 'òliba', (San. – Ulooka) which it's been suggested may be derived from the
        Gothic word for owl

        2.
        örn "eagle" (San. – utkrosha)





        Elof
        Hellquist's Svensk etymologisk ordbok. 6 is especially interesting; both roots
        are attested in Gothic. This would make a very handy addition to our
        reconstructed "modern" vocabulary. There

        is a Gothic derivative from the same root as 2 recorded, namely 'ara' "eagle",
        cognate with Old Norse 'ari', but since ON had 'örn' (San. – “ara” one going with speed) there's no reason Gothic couldn't
        have had both words too.

         

        Ah,
        no need for embarrassment! I was just thinking of it as an exercise in phonetic
        reconstruction. In other words, what would a Gothic cognate of (word descended
        from the same Proto-Germanic

        ancestor as) Modern English 'wood' look like? But you're right 'triu' does mean
        "a tree" (San. – “taru” means
        tree also wood,) or "a stick". I guess that illustrates another issue
        in reconstruction: where a word already exists in the same semantic field, how
        might that have related to the meaning of a hypothetical, reconstructed Gothic
        cognate? Does that make sense?



        In this case, it seems that the better attested early Germanic languages did
        have a few partly overlapping words in this semantic field, e.g. Old Norse has a word 'viðr' which is
        cognate with 'wood', as well as a word 'tré' congate with English 'tree'.
        So there's nothing improbably about supposing Gothic had cognates for both,
        even though only one, 'triu', is recorded.





        The
        gist is this: initial 'b' in English corresponds to Gothic 'b' (as in Go.
        'broþar' : Modern English 'brother' Sanskrit
        is “Bhaartru”)-- no catch there. I found a comparison chart but it didn't
        tell me what to do with initial B, medial TH, or final -M, let alone the
        morpheme -AM, so I'm a little lost right now.

        other Indo-European languages (e.g. Latin 2nd declension nouns ending
        in -um, Greek in -on, Sanskrit in -am).

        The
        3rd person singular

        (he/she/it does/is doing smth) ends in –iþ for the verbs used in the story.
        "He's sleeping" is 'slepiþ' (from 'slepan' "to sleep" San. Root is “svap” - svapiti). The
        last sentence is in subjunctive, but you can have a simpler translation.

         

        Some vocabulary you need: early morning – air uhtwon clothes – wasti  (Sanskrit
        – Vastra) F.-jo (that is, feminine jo-stem) staff – hrugga F.-o to push –
        stigqan to get awake – gawaknan to climb up – ussteigan to look like – wisan
        galeiks (lit. "to be like") + noun in dative ("he's looking like
        A." is 'ist galeiks A.'). Don't forget to put the A. ("owl" in
        our case) in dative.

         

        That
        is, "I take" is 'nima' (from
        'niman' "to take" Sanskrit word “nirgam” means get off, get away from
        – ni-sru). The 3rd person singular (he/she/it does/is doing smth) ends in
        –iþ for the verbs used in the story. "He's sleeping" is 'slepiþ'
        (from 'slepan' "to sleep"). The last sentence is in subjunctive, but
        you can have a simpler translation.





        early
        morning – air uhtwon; Sanskrit – ushas;






        to
        push – stigqan; Sanskrit – saahasin; to
        climb up – ussteigan, San. – upari gama;

        *kiggwan, OE cíowan, (San. –
        ‘charvanam”) ON tyggva? 6. däggdjur "mammal"





        So
        you are through with your Aztec torment,
        unlike me. Everyone saying that Gothic is difficult should be immediately
        reminded of the existence of Nahuatl.
        A couple remarks. Ilnâmiqui is "to remember", right? Niquilnâmiqui –  þis (or þata) [ik] ga-man? Iirc 'cân' can be
        both directional and stative. I mean weren't it better to say 'þarei' with
        'ainshun ni gaswiltiþ' and 'manna sigis nimiþ'? Is it the 'îchân tônatiuh', the
        place? An interesting parallel between 'in yâômiqui' and einherjar...





        Irish
        Suibhne geilt living on trees and perhaps also the Nahuatl (Aztec) word for "demon" (= Go. skohsl) –
        tlâcatecolôtl, lit. "man-owl", used in the Anales de Cuauhtitlan of
        the gods whom human sacrifices were due to.





         



        --- On Tue, 3/6/08, Fredrik <gadrauhts@...> wrote:
        From: Fredrik <gadrauhts@...>
        Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Introduction
        To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, 3 June, 2008, 8:05 PM











        It's always nice with presentations so we can know a little about

        each other but why not just write some words here?



        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroup s.com, Madhukar Vichare

        <madhukar_vichare@ ...> wrote:

        >

        > Most of my groups encourage members to share a bit about

        themselves, so I hope

        > this is ok to post here.

        >

        > I just setup a profile on Grouply where you can see my photos,

        friends,

        > interests, and a list of my groups. You can see my profile and set

        up your own

        > here: http://www.grouply. com/register. php?

        tmg=260177&amp; vt=170949

        >

        > Look forward to seeing your profile!

        >

        > Madhukar

        >

        > ============ ========

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