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7121Re: [gothic-l] Re: GUTANI WIHAILAG

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  • Terje Ellefsen
    Jun 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi

      The word "Goth" is not Gothic, they would say something like: "sa guta" for
      "the goth". However, texts about Goths weren't written in Gothic, but other
      languages like Latin.

      Terje


      >From: "Ravi Chaudhary" <ravichaudhary2000@...>
      >Reply-To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      >To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [gothic-l] Re: GUTANI WIHAILAG
      >Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:52:53 -0000
      >
      >To both of you
      >
      >How do one derive Goth from Gut- ane.?
      >
      >Ravi
      >
      >
      >
      >-- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
      >wrote:
      > > Hi, Dirk,
      > >
      > > I don't dispute the reading 'gutane', I just mean that, based on
      >what
      > > we know about Wulfila's Gothic language, 'gutane' means rather 'of
      > > the Goths' than 'good' (which would be goths, goda-). jer 'year' in
      > > Gothic is neutrum, like the German 'Jahr', and if you wish to
      > > somebody 'ein gutes Jahr', this would be in Gothic 'godata jer',
      >and
      > > not 'gutane jer'. 'gutane jer' could mean only 'year of the Goths'
      > > (?!)
      > >
      > > Francisc
      > >
      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
      > > > Hi Francisc,
      > > >
      > > > I have no linguistic knowledge and rely only on secondary
      >sources.
      > > > The reading 'GUTANE JER WEIH HAILAG' I found in a recent article
      >by
      > > > A. Schwarcs "Cult and Religion among the Tervingi and the
      >Visigoths
      > > > and their conversion to Christianity" in 'The Visigoths from the
      > > > Migration to the 7th Century: An Ethnographic Perspective', Ed.
      >P.
      > > > Heather, 2000.
      > > >
      > > > p. (page numbers not on my copy) "A recent study one by Hermann
      > > > Reichert with a thorough scrutiny of th eoriginal in Bucarest in
      > > 1992
      > > > gives as the most plausible reading of this runic
      > > inscription "gutane
      > > > jer weih hailag", a blessing for a fruitful and prosperous
      >year..."
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > The Runenprojekt of the University of Kiel in Germany also
      >records
      > > > the following alternative interpretations:
      > > >
      > > > Gutani¿ w³hhailag
      > > > sacrosanctum of gothic women/female warriors(?)
      > > > Antonsen, Elmer H. 1975
      > > >
      > > > Gutaniom hailag
      > > > dedicated to the Gothic Mothers (=female guardian spirits of the
      > > > Goths)
      > > > Krogmann, Willy. 1978
      > > >
      > > > (G)ut(an³) (¿) (1Z) (w³)hh(a)i(l)ag ...
      > > > the Goths' protector (=king) (1Z) [be/is] sacrosanct ...
      > > > Isb&%escu, Mihai. 1960
      > > >
      > > > guttani hailag wiko
      > > > holy song of the Goths - Wiko (=rota of the great cult of the
      > > tribe)
      > > > Gutenbrunner, Siegfried. 1964
      > > >
      > > > Gutani¿ w³h hailag
      > > > the holy relic of gothic priestesses (=the [altar] ring)
      > > > Johnsen, Ingrid Sanness., 1971
      > > >
      > > > Gutan³ (¿) [1Z] (w³)h hailag
      > > > the Goths' hereditary property - (1Z) - consecrated [and]
      > > inviolable
      > > > Krause, Wolfgang, Herbert Jankuhn.
      > > > 1966
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > What is clear from this list is that the reading and the
      > > translation
      > > > is rather uncertain. However, in contrast to Reichert's latest
      > > study
      > > > not all of these translations above will have been based on a
      >close
      > > > analysis of the original ring, so that some of them likely suffer
      > > > from a misreading of the runes.
      > > >
      > > > cheers
      > > > Dirk
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor"
      > > <fericzobor@y...>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > Hi, Dirk,
      > > > >
      > > > > I write 'GUTANI WIHAILAG' because it is in Gothic and because
      > > it's
      > > > > from my country, Romania. In fact, the runes read GUTANI?
      > > WIHAILAG,
      > > > > where ? is for the illegible rune at the place of the fracture
      >of
      > > > the
      > > > > necklace. I know that there are still controversies regarding
      >the
      > > > > interpretation of this text, but I personally think that it is
      > > not
      > > > > very plausible the interpretation of GUTANI as 'gutane'
      >= 'good'.
      > > > > First: indeed, in German 'gut' = 'good', but in Gothic 'good'
      >is
      > > > > goths/goda-, so the genitive plural, weak adjectival
      >declension,
      > > > > would be 'godane', not 'gutane'.
      > > > > Second: it doesn't make sense in this context to put the
      > > > > adjective 'good' in genitive plural. But the substantive "Goth"
      > > in
      > > > > genitive plural - "of the Goths" is more meaningful.
      > > > > So I still prefer to consider that the most plausible
      > > > interpretation
      > > > > of GUTANI is 'gutane' = 'of the Goths'.
      > > > >
      > > > > With best regards,
      > > > > Francisc
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
      > > > > > ...
      > > > > > Hi Francisc,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I see that you write 'GUTANI WIHAILAG'. Did you know that the
      > > > > latest
      > > > > > investigation on the original ring suggests that the best
      > > reading
      > > > > of
      > > > > > the inscription is 'gutane jer weih hailag', which is a
      > > blessing
      > > > > for
      > > > > > a good year, with 'gutane' meaning 'good' . Hence, the name
      >of
      > > > the
      > > > > > Goths is probably not on the ring.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Cheers
      > > > > > Dirk
      >

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