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  • Asaf Revach
    Hi, I m using KDE on SuSe 9.3 (x86_84) and I want to use a hot key to switch between Heb-Eng. I found the where to do this (the language preferences) but it
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 20, 2005
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      Language Shortcut

      Hi,

      I'm using KDE on SuSe 9.3 (x86_84) and I want to use a hot key to switch between Heb-Eng. I found the where to do this (the language preferences) but it either has no effect or I'm missunderstanding something. Btw,  would rather set it up to be the usual alt+shift.

      Thank and Sukot Sameah,

      Asaf.

    • Oded Arbel
      ... You have to understand that in X11 there are two different settings: keyboard layout and keyboard groups: - A layout is a description of what kind of
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 23, 2005
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        On Friday, 21 בOctober 2005 00:05, Asaf Revach wrote:
        > Hi,
        >
        > I'm using KDE on SuSe 9.3 (x86_84) and I want to use a hot key to
        > switch between Heb-Eng. I found the where to do this (the language
        > preferences) but it either has no effect or I'm missunderstanding
        > something. Btw, would rather set it up to be the usual alt+shift.

        You have to understand that in X11 there are two different settings:
        keyboard layout and keyboard groups:
        - A layout is a description of what kind of keyboard you have, for
        example: English QWERTY, American Dvorak, Belgian AZERTY, English QWERY
        with Hebrew, etc'.
        - A group is the group of all characters of a single glyph set that can
        be generated by the layout. In the above example, the last layout has
        two groups: English and Hebrew.

        The problem is, that while you (and most people) talk about group
        switching, the KDE keyboard layout manager (and not the language
        preferences, which has nothing to do with keyboards) talks about
        layouts.

        The simples way to get what you want, is to do the following:
        * go into KDE's control panel (kcontrol)
        * open the keyboard layout manager
        * make sure that the right panel contains both U.S. English and Israel
        * Choose the "Israel (il)" layout in the right panel and check "include
        latin layout" at the bottom of the panel. You can also choose the
        layout variant - I recommend 'lyx' which will allow you to type
        diacritics (nikud) using the SHIFT key instead of Latin characters when
        in the Hebrew group.
        * Now choose the "Kxb Options" tab
        * Under "Group Shift/Lock behavior" choose the keyboard shortcut you
        want to use for group switching (i.e. - when using the Israeli layout,
        switching between the English group and the Hebrew group). Alt+Shift is
        available, as well as a few other useful combinations. You can choose
        as many as you like.
        * If your keyboard has a "scroll lock" led (some of the new "office
        keyboards" for go that in favor of a "F lock" led), then it is
        recommended that you scroll down to "Use keyboard LED to show alternate
        group" and selected "Scroll lock" - that way you will get a visual
        indicator when your keyboard is in the Hebrew group, as the KDE
        keyboard applet will not provide that.
        * Now click "Ok" or "Apply".

        After doing that, a keyboard applet should appear in your tray
        notification area - it should say "us"and have a background of the
        american flag, which stands for the "U.S. English" layout (not group).
        In this default mode, you can only type English.
        When you want to type Hebrew, click it with the mouse or hit CTRL-ALT-K
        and the applet will instead show "il" with the Israeli flag - which
        stands for the "Israel" layout (containing both Hebrew and English
        groups). Now you can type Hebrew and use ALT-SHIFT (or whatever you
        chose) to switch back and forth between the Hebrew and English group.

        You can even go back to the keyboard layout manager and set "Israel" as
        your default layout (by positioning it above the U.S. English layout)
        and so you will have Hebrew by default when you log in. I personally
        don't like that as I type a lot more english then hebrew and the
        Israeli layout specifies the group order as first "il", then "us" (for
        some reason, "latin layout" means "us" and not "en" or something. also
        see note below).

        Its possible to get finer control over the keyboard layouts and groups
        by editing the X11 configuration file directly, but I'm not going to go
        into that now.

        Note: Starting with some version of KDE (IIRC 3.4.3, but I may be
        mistaken and it might even be a local patch by my distro provider), the
        Israeli layout has the group order as us,il which is more useful to me
        and allow me to do away with the U.S. English layout, but would
        probably annoy other people.

        Note 2: If you are annoyed that the KDE keyboard applet only shows
        layouts and not groups, then I recommend you download and install
        KKBSwitch which is a keyboard applet replacement which manages groups
        like everyone other then X11 developers would expect.

        --
        Oded

        ::..
        X windows:
        Design by counterexample.
      • Boris Gorelik
        Wow, Oded, thank you for your explanation. However there is a puzzle: on my mandriva, I m able to switch between layouts using Alt-Shift combination, but the
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 27, 2005
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          Wow, Oded, thank you for your explanation. However there is a puzzle: on my
          mandriva, I'm able to switch between layouts using Alt-Shift combination, but
          the "Enable keyboard layouts" box in kcontrol is empty. I do recall that I
          set the switching option during the installation.

          > Its possible to get finer control over the keyboard layouts and groups
          > by editing the X11 configuration file directly, but I'm not going to go
          > into that now.

          is this related?

          --
          Boris Gorelik
          Friday, 28 October 2005, 25 Tishrei 5766
          -= =-
          ----------------------------------------------------------
          Molecular Modeling and Drug Design Group
          Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Natural Products
          School of Pharmacy, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
          http: // www.md.huji.ac.il/models/group.html
          Tel: (972)(2)6757351
          ---------------------------------------------------------

          --
          Boris Gorelik
          Friday, 28 October 2005, 25 Tishrei 5766
          -= =-
          ----------------------------------------------------------
          Molecular Modeling and Drug Design Group
          Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Natural Products
          School of Pharmacy, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
          http: // www.md.huji.ac.il/models/group.html
          Tel: (972)(2)6757351
          ---------------------------------------------------------
        • Nigel Ridley
          ... You have to click on the Enable keyboard layouts box to then be able to select the keybaord layout that you want (don t forget to click on the Add
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 29, 2005
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            Boris Gorelik wrote:
            > Wow, Oded, thank you for your explanation. However there is a puzzle: on my
            > mandriva, I'm able to switch between layouts using Alt-Shift combination, but
            > the "Enable keyboard layouts" box in kcontrol is empty.

            You have to click on the 'Enable keyboard layouts' box to then be able
            to select the keybaord layout that you want (don't forget to click on
            the 'Add' button at the bottom).

            [snip]

            Blessings,

            Nigel

            --
            It's not a problem -- it's a learning opportunity.
            --

            I AM Bible Studies and Resources
            http://www.i-amfaithweb.net

            Messianic E-Cards.com
            http://www.messianicecards.com

            OliveRoot Ministries
            http://www.oliveroot.net

            PrayingForIsrael.net
            http://www.prayingforisrael.net
          • Oded Arbel
            ... You of course mean switch groups ? as Alt-Shift is the X shortcut to switch groups, and X can t switch layouts. ... The enable keyboard layouts is only
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 5, 2005
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              On Friday, 28 בOctober 2005 08:41, Boris Gorelik wrote:
              > Wow, Oded, thank you for your explanation. However there is a puzzle:
              > on my mandriva, I'm able to switch between layouts using Alt-Shift
              > combination

              You of course mean "switch groups" ? as Alt-Shift is the X shortcut to
              switch groups, and X can't switch layouts.

              > , but the "Enable keyboard layouts" box in kcontrol is
              > empty. I do recall that I set the switching option during the
              > installation.

              The enable keyboard layouts is only to start the KDE's keyboard applet
              which allow you to manage keyboard layouts. If indeed you are switching
              layouts, then you probably use a non-KDE method to do that - there are
              keyboard applets for all major desktop envs, and some also work with
              KDE.

              > > Its possible to get finer control over the keyboard layouts and
              > > groups by editing the X11 configuration file directly, but I'm not
              > > going to go into that now.
              >
              > is this related?

              Yes - probably the installation has setup X with the required keyboard
              groups so you don't need to mess around with keyboard layouts.

              IMO keyboard layouts are only useful if you have multiple users on the
              same machine (or actually the same X server setup) and each wants to
              use a different keyboard layout. If this is not the case, then its
              often simpler to just setup a single keyboard layout (often with
              multiple groups) in the X server configuration directly (as I haven't
              discussed above) and use that instead of all these complicated keyboard
              layout switchers.

              --
              Oded

              ::..
              Juall's Law on Nice Guys:
              Nice guys don't always finish last; sometimes they don't finish.
              Sometimes they don't even get a chance to start!
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