Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [gnubies-il] hebrew on OpenOffice

Expand Messages
  • YigalB
    Can someone explain, or is there any comparison table to compare between all those falvors? It looks to me a waste to have so many versions - and to me.. A
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Can someone explain, or is there any comparison table to compare between
      all those falvors?

      It looks to me a waste to have so many versions - and to me.. A
      newbie... I have no idea what to choose.

      If possible, include hebrew support in that comparison.

      Thanks
      Yigal

      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
      >Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:36 AM
      >To: gnubies-il@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [gnubies-il] hebrew on OpenOffice
      >
      >
      >
      >On Monday 01 November 2004 20:17, Nigel Ridley wrote:
      >> On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:06:08 +0200
      >>
      >> Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> wrote:
      >> > On Monday 01 November 2004 16:35, Nigel Ridley wrote:
      >> > >  Hi YigalB,
      >> > >  I too have daughters that want to play Sims and do their
      >> homework. > >  I also have 4 computer, 5 when I get around to
      >> switching some > >  hardware around, and have not had any problems
      >> getting Hebrew to > >  work with OpenOffice. > >  I must
      >admit that
      >> I don't like RPM distros and hence use a Debian > >  based one
      >> instead (Libranet). It was very easy to install and using >
      >>  'apt'
      >> is so easy when I need to install or upgrade software. >
      >> > Well, RPM has nothing to do with it. Please don't generalize to
      >> > "RPM-based distros". There are many different RPM based distro's
      >> > around. I'm using Mandrake and it's perfectly fine. You have urpmi
      >> > instead of apt (even though I think apt4rpm can be installed). And
      >> > Mandrake has much more GUI-configuration tools available
      >than Debian.
      >>
      >> Sorry, I should have explained better: I got fed up using Mandrake,
      >> not because it was Mandrake but because it was an RPM based distro
      >> and trying install new software was sometimes a bit of a nightmare
      >> because of dependency issues (commonly known as 'rpm hell'); Debian
      >> based distros don't suffer from this problem.
      >>
      >
      >Well, in Mandrake you have urpmi and other tools like that
      >that works very
      >well, and eliminate this "RPM hell". RPM is just a packaging format
      >like .deb. You can build dependency resolvers on top of it,
      >and that's what
      >exists now.
      >
      >
      >> As for gui tools, Libranet (Debian based) has all that is necessary
      >> and are very easy to use.
      >>
      >
      >I see.
      >
      >Regards,
      >
      > Shlomi Fish
      >
      >---------------------------------------------------------------------
      >Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
      >Homepage: http://www.shlomifish.org/
      >
      >Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire.
      >
      >
      >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      >--------------------~-->
      >Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
      >Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
      >http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/0XFolB/TM
      >
      >---------------------------------------------------------------
      >-----~->
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Tzafrir Cohen
      ... You could just as well have said that Debian is a deb-based distribution with its own deb-hell . You should use apt/yum/urpmi and not rpm directly, as
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 4, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 08:17:04PM +0200, Nigel Ridley wrote:
        >
        > On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:06:08 +0200
        > Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > On Monday 01 November 2004 16:35, Nigel Ridley wrote:
        > > > Hi YigalB,
        > > > I too have daughters that want to play Sims and do their homework.
        > > > I also have 4 computer, 5 when I get around to switching some
        > > > hardware around, and have not had any problems getting Hebrew to
        > > > work with OpenOffice.
        > > > I must admit that I don't like RPM distros and hence use a Debian
        > > > based one instead (Libranet). It was very easy to install and using
        > > > 'apt' is so easy when I need to install or upgrade software.
        > > >
        > >
        > > Well, RPM has nothing to do with it. Please don't generalize to
        > > "RPM-based distros". There are many different RPM based distro's
        > > around. I'm using Mandrake and it's perfectly fine. You have urpmi
        > > instead of apt (even though I think apt4rpm can be installed). And
        > > Mandrake has much more GUI-configuration tools available than Debian.
        >
        > Sorry, I should have explained better: I got fed up using Mandrake, not
        > because it was Mandrake but because it was an RPM based distro and
        > trying install new software was sometimes a bit of a nightmare
        > because of dependency issues (commonly known as 'rpm hell'); Debian
        > based distros don't suffer from this problem.

        You could just as well have said that Debian is a deb-based distribution
        with its own 'deb-hell' . You should use apt/yum/urpmi and not rpm
        directly, as much as you usually don't use dpkg directly on Debian.

        >
        > As for gui tools, Libranet (Debian based) has all that is necessary and
        > are very easy to use.

        But it also means you use an external source of packages. It is not
        exactly Debian.

        --
        Tzafrir Cohen +---------------------------+
        http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
        mailto:tzafrir@... +---------------------------+
      • Tzafrir Cohen
        ... vmware (and the free alternative qemu) will work, but chances are that all the directx will be run through software implementation rather than accelerated
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 4, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 08:27:49PM +0200, YigalB wrote:

          > >> >For the Sims I just dual boot with Win98.
          > >> Dual boot is something I don't like: it takes time to
          > >restart instead
          > >> simple task switching. I prefer to have one OS.
          > >
          > >Have you considered VMware or Win4Lin? They allow you to run
          > >Windows on top of Linux and you can switch between them
          > >without having to reboot.
          > I was told it will not work with applications that are tight coupled to
          > HW, such as directX and others.

          vmware (and the free alternative qemu) will work, but chances are that
          all the directx will be run through software implementation rather than
          accelerated hardware implementation, so you'd loose speed .

          --
          Tzafrir Cohen +---------------------------+
          http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
          mailto:tzafrir@... +---------------------------+
        • Shoshannah Forbes
          ... Well, no. Each distro is meant for different people with different tastes and habits (for example, some people don t like using GUI s for configuration,
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 4, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            On 02/11/2004, at 12:37, YigalB wrote:
            > It looks to me a waste to have so many versions

            Well, no. Each distro is meant for different people with different
            tastes and habits (for example, some people don't like using GUI's for
            configuration, other people like using wizards for everything).
            Apart from the distro, there are also the Window Manager/Desktops (like
            KDE, Gnome, XFCE, etc.). Again, different desktops try to fill
            different needs.

            Linux isn't a "one size fits all" thing, which is very good IMO.

            Tip: if you want to get directions on how to do something with a GUI,
            you should note which distro and which desktop you are using, as every
            combination can be different. If you don't, people will just go by the
            safe bet and give the directions for the command line, which is the
            same everywhere :-)

            > - and to me.. A
            > newbie... I have no idea what to choose.

            Indeed, that is the price one pays for freedom of choice. Today most of
            the recommendations seem to be Mandrake or SuSe, although personally I
            never really like either (I am a Gentoo person), but to each his own-
            try a few, until you find the distro that is right for YOU.

            >
            > If possible, include hebrew support in that comparison.

            All major distros support Hebrew.
            ---
            Shoshannah Forbes
            http://www.xslf.com
          • YigalB
            ... GUI & Desktops can be driven from the same kernel. No need to have different kernel just for the color of the GUI or the prompt line. You don t choose your
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 4, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              >> It looks to me a waste to have so many versions
              >
              >Well, no. Each distro is meant for different people with different
              >tastes and habits (for example, some people don't like using GUI's for
              >configuration, other people like using wizards for
              >everything). Apart from the distro, there are also the Window
              >Manager/Desktops (like
              >KDE, Gnome, XFCE, etc.). Again, different desktops try to fill
              >different needs.
              GUI & Desktops can be driven from the same kernel. No need to have
              different kernel just for the color of the GUI or the prompt line. You
              don't choose your car by the color or the radio brand. It's the other
              way arround. Same about wizards - they are so high level (like GUI)
              that I wonder why not to have all - and let user choose how to click the
              mouse, push a button or write a command line.


              >Linux isn't a "one size fits all" thing, which is very good IMO.
              What is "IMO" ?


              >Tip: if you want to get directions on how to do something with a GUI,
              >you should note which distro and which desktop you are using, as every
              >combination can be different. If you don't, people will just go by the
              >safe bet and give the directions for the command line, which is the
              >same everywhere :-)
              I have a GUI and I don't know what it's name (it doesn't say it when it
              powered up). I also have command line from window terminal - I need it
              to write scripts and better directories and files manipulation. I have
              no idea why does it matter.

              >
              >> - and to me.. A
              >> newbie... I have no idea what to choose.
              >Indeed, that is the price one pays for freedom of choice.
              >Today most of
              >the recommendations seem to be Mandrake or SuSe, although personally I
              >never really like either (I am a Gentoo person), but to each his own-
              >try a few, until you find the distro that is right for YOU.
              Doesn't make sense. You expect me to install all flavours and learn
              them? I have Fedora and I like it - I guess I would like them all.

              >> If possible, include hebrew support in that comparison.
              >All major distros support Hebrew.
              My Fedora's hebrew doesn't work - or better - I can't get it work. I
              couldn't get the answer why.
            • Shoshannah Forbes
              ... Most distros use more or less the same kernel. The difference is usually in the system management tools they give you: The package manager, the way you
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 5, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                On 05/11/2004, at 06:39, YigalB wrote:
                > GUI & Desktops can be driven from the same kernel. No need to have
                > different kernel just for the color of the GUI or the prompt line.

                Most distros use more or less the same kernel. The difference is
                usually in the system management tools they give you: The package
                manager, the way you configure your settings etc.

                > It's the other
                > way arround. Same about wizards - they are so high level (like GUI)
                > that I wonder why not to have all - and let user choose how to click
                > the
                > mouse, push a button or write a command line.

                Most configurations are not in the kernel level anyway, and different
                distros like to use different styles of configuration (even for the
                files themselves).

                Even if you do use wizards, there is more then one way to do it-
                compare Mandrake and SuSe, which both have many any wizards, while both
                are very different.

                As a Gentoo user, I don't like or need wizards on my system. Why should
                I have to use a system that uses them? From experience, editing the
                same config file sometimes using the wizard and sometimes directly is a
                sure way to get in truble (if it works at all- SuSe tends to ignore
                changes done by hand to it's configuration). BTW, the same is true for
                Windows, but you don't see it as much as many things can *only* be
                configured via the GUI.

                > What is "IMO" ?

                IMO= In My Opinion

                > I have a GUI and I don't know what it's name (it doesn't say it when it
                > powered up).

                Don't you get a splash screen after you log in?
                Fedora by default uses Gnome, so unless you changed that (and you can),
                that is probably what you are using.


                > I also have command line from window terminal - I need it
                > to write scripts and better directories and files manipulation. I have
                > no idea why does it matter.

                Why what matters? Which GUI you are using? It matter as things may be
                in different locations and have different names in different GUI's.
                Which is good. I can't stand the way KDE does things, and people who
                like KDE can't stand the way Gnome or XFCE do things.
                Again- Linux is not one size fits all :-)

                > Doesn't make sense. You expect me to install all flavours and learn
                > them?

                No. I don't expect you to install "all" flavors. I expect you to
                install a few until you find a one that you really like.

                > I have Fedora and I like it - I guess I would like them all.

                Why would you guess that? Many of them are rather different then
                Fedora. Mandrake/SuSe have many more wizards then Fedora (and work
                better with a KDE desktop, while Fedora works better with a Gnome
                desktop). While Gentoo has no graphical wizards at all and install
                everything from source code. Debian has wizards, but they tend to be
                non-graphical.

                So, you like Fedora. There is no reason to assume that you will like
                Gentoo or debian the same :-)

                So, in general- Linux has no one way to do things. This is many times
                daunting to new users, who get lost in all the possibilities, However,
                once you get used to it, it is really nice- to work with a system that
                is tailored *exactly* to you, with no need to compromised on things.

                > My Fedora's hebrew doesn't work - or better - I can't get it work. I
                > couldn't get the answer why.

                It was suggested here that you don't have your Hebrew keyboard
                configured. As I don't have Fedora (although I will be upgrading my
                sister's computer from Redhat 9 to Fedora 3 when it will come out), I
                can't tell you a graphical way to set it up (but there should be one).
                I do know that Fedora 2 uses X.org instead of XFree, so the file
                mentioned before to edit would be xorg.conf



                ---
                Shoshannah Forbes
                http://www.xslf.com
              • YigalB
                ... Aha. You solved a mistery. ... No. My first task (and I made it!) was to elimintae the login window after power up. I am using it at home, so no need for
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 5, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  >> What is "IMO" ?
                  >
                  >IMO= In My Opinion
                  Aha. You solved a mistery.

                  >> I have a GUI and I don't know what it's name (it doesn't say it when
                  >> it powered up).
                  >
                  >Don't you get a splash screen after you log in?
                  No. My first task (and I made it!) was to elimintae the login window
                  after power up. I am using it at home, so no need for security. (and yes
                  - I am automatically logging as user, not as root).

                  >Fedora by default uses Gnome, so unless you changed that (and
                  >you can),
                  >that is probably what you are using.
                  So I guess it is Gnome.


                  >> I also have command line from window terminal - I need it
                  >> to write scripts and better directories and files
                  >manipulation. I have no idea why does it matter.
                  >
                  >Why what matters? Which GUI you are using? It matter as things may be
                  >in different locations and have different names in different GUI's.
                  >Which is good. I can't stand the way KDE does things, and people who
                  >like KDE can't stand the way Gnome or XFCE do things.
                  >Again- Linux is not one size fits all :-)
                  As far as I can see it, Linux users care too much about they GUI. I am
                  using Gnome because that what was installed when I pressed the "next" on
                  the wizzard, but now I feel proud enough to declare: my Gnome is bigger
                  !!!! Ha! Now I am a member of the Linux community


                  >> Doesn't make sense. You expect me to install all flavours and learn
                  >> them?
                  >
                  >No. I don't expect you to install "all" flavors. I expect you to
                  >install a few until you find a one that you really like.
                  Ok. Which ones you recommend me to test on my Fedora core 2? Can I have
                  few of them installed and switch between them?


                  >> My Fedora's hebrew doesn't work - or better - I can't get it work. I
                  >> couldn't get the answer why.
                  >
                  >It was suggested here that you don't have your Hebrew keyboard
                  >configured. As I don't have Fedora (although I will be upgrading my
                  >sister's computer from Redhat 9 to Fedora 3 when it will come out), I
                  >can't tell you a graphical way to set it up (but there should be one).
                  >I do know that Fedora 2 uses X.org instead of XFree, so the file
                  >mentioned before to edit would be xorg.conf
                  Ok - I give up. I will do it.. I will manually update this file and make
                  it work...
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.