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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Hello and question

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  • Pekka Virtanen
    Hi, ... library in Finnish, ... a copy. local bookshop didn t have a copy so i ordered one. I don t have the ISP number but name is: Nag Hammadin kätketty
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 20, 2004
      Hi,

      >Hey, Sampo, if you find a copy of the Nag Hammadi
      library in Finnish,
      >could you send me the ISBN number for it? I may want
      a copy.

      local bookshop didn't have a copy so i ordered one. I
      don't
      have the ISP number but name is: "Nag Hammadin
      k�tketty viisaus:
      gnostilaisia ja muita varhaiskristillisi� tekstej�"

      >As for the question concerning Gnosis, consider this;
      there are three
      >levels of conciousness according to Gnosticism. These
      levels are
      >called Hylic, Psychic, and Pneumatic. The hylic level
      is one of
      >instinct and natural drive. The psychic level is one
      of rationalism
      >of emotional drives, and basic thinking. The last
      one, the pneumatic,
      >is a level of spiritual understanding (that I believe
      is meant to
      >also include a higher logical intellect, but is not
      directly equated
      >with that intellect... but you may find some debate
      here on that one).

      This dividing people to three gategories is
      interesting. I have
      seen similar things in other religions / philosophies
      as well.
      Anyway i seem to see those more like this:

      1. peple who have a gnosis
      2. people who has a change to have gnosis
      3. people who never have it

      But i have to give more thought to your idea about the
      fact that one needs
      to climb those three steps in able to reach gnosis...
      What i thought of
      was more in line whit (Romans 9:11-24), destiny so to
      speak. Dunno't
      know if such thing even exist in gnosticism.

      My story actually had a story behind it. Group of
      students asked from teatcher:
      How would they know what philopsophies to study. Guru
      gave them above story and
      advice: If the answer to question is "No" you should
      move on... but if the
      answer is "Yes", you should definetly study that
      philosophy more. Too bad i
      have lost the orginal source and cannot pinpoint the
      origins of this story :(

      I am glad that gnosticism answer is at least
      "possibly" :). The "No" answer
      usually meens that one have to follow this and this
      dogma in order to have
      enlightenmet.

      Personally i don't have a opinion about animals having
      gnosis, maybe they
      don't need one. Maybe they are just perfect as they
      are.


      Sampo





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    • pmcvflag
      Hey Sampo You state.... ... students asked from teatcher: How would they know what philopsophies to study. Guru gave them above story and advice: If the answer
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 22, 2004
        Hey Sampo

        You state....

        >>>"My story actually had a story behind it. Group of
        students asked from teatcher: How would they know what philopsophies
        to study. Guru gave them above story and advice: If the answer to
        question is "No" you should move on... but if the
        answer is "Yes", you should definetly study that
        philosophy more. Too bad i have lost the orginal source and cannot
        pinpoint the origins of this story"<<<

        Maybe we should question what this Guru says for a moment. Let me
        show you something using your own story......

        "Long time ago a herd of wolves atacked a family and killed them all
        except a small baby girl. The leader female felt sorry for that girl
        and decided to save her. Girl was raised among wolves, she never learn
        to speak or read. Girl lived and hunted whit the herd and eventually
        she died. Is it possible that the girl had a good understanding of
        nuclear physics?"

        Look at that last line, it is the only thing I changed. Would this
        guru suggest there is no value in science since the wolves don't
        communicate it to her? We could talk about whether wolves have the
        understanding level to express such things, but it really doesn't get
        us anywhere.

        Understand here, Sampo, "Gnosis" is not exactly the same as that
        thing most people call "enlightenment". Enlightenment is a western
        word meant to partly outline an Eastern religious ideal.

        Lastly, you state...

        >>>"But i have to give more thought to your idea about the
        fact that one needs to climb those three steps in able to reach
        gnosis... What i thought of was more in line whit (Romans 9:11-24),
        destiny so to speak. Dunno't know if such thing even exist in
        gnosticism."<<<

        Concerning destiny in Gnostic thought, we have had a number of
        discussions in here concerning it. Perhaps that should be a seperate
        topic though.

        With your first point though, we should deal with it now I think
        since it seems related to your question. As you read the Gnostic
        texts, keep the notion of initiation in mind and it will jump out at
        you. Maybe start with the Gospel of Philip, and think of
        this.... "Gentile" = hylic, "Hebrew" = psychic, and "Christian" =
        Pneumatic. The author of the Gospel of Philip talks about going from
        one to the other in order, first Gentile, then Hebrew, then
        Christian... this is the kind of code language you will see in
        Gnostic texts.

        PMCV
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