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Re: Creativity... modern reflections on Gnosticism

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  • pmcvflag
    Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that you find especially interesting that you could share with us? Still, I do hope that
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 5, 2004
      Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
      you find especially interesting that you could share with us?

      Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
      own work.

      PMCV

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      > Hello pmcvflag
      >
      > On 07/05/04, you wrote:
      >
      > > Hey, Mike. You are right that I only have a vague familiarity with
      > > the book "The Gnostics and Thier Remains; Ancient and
      Medieval"... I
      > > assume we are talking about the same book, by King. Thumbed
      through
      > > and realized I wanted other sources. (maybe I should read it
      though
      > > before I really say?)
      > >
      > > However, I did cover that base a bit. The thing I remember is
      that
      > > much of the material dealt not with Gnosticism, but with Templars,
      > > Mithraic remains, Serapis, Freemasons... etc. In other words, it
      > > doesn't exactly answer my topic of art dealing with Gnosticism.
      >
      > Well you did see the :-), I guess. Actually most of the book deals
      > with what he considers gnostic remains, but of course we know now
      > many were Mithraic, neo-Platonic, etc., but still perhaps originally
      > gnostic in origin. For its day it is a good book. None the less,
      > the shadow of the third century as Alvin Boyd Kuhn calls it,
      > destroyed most gnostic art, especially the big stuff. As King
      > himself points out, the gems were saved because they were valuable.
      > The book is worth reading, especially if you know enough to
      > critically appraise it.
      >
      > Regards
      > --
      > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello pmcvflag ... My memory of it is almost all in text small illustrations. There might be a plate or two, but the only one I remember is a fairly large one
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 5, 2004
        Hello pmcvflag

        On 07/06/04, you wrote:

        > Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
        > you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
        >
        > Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
        > own work.
        >
        > PMCV

        My memory of it is almost all in text small illustrations. There
        might be a plate or two, but the only one I remember is a fairly
        large one of Abraxus, of dubious origin. I really don't know where
        the book is right now, alas, my library has been a shambles for
        years, and my back to bad to move it and reshelve it.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • lady_caritas
        ... How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out there. No, you don t have to be a professional artist, poet, etc. Heck, I remember
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 6, 2004
          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
          > you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
          >
          > Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
          > own work.
          >
          > PMCV


          How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out
          there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet, etc.
          Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while back.
          Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved mystery of
          that section of our "lost" archives.

          Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
          you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share some
          of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.


          Cari
        • Mike Leavitt
          Hello lady_caritas ... Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje s post archived, I have stuff of his going back to 1997. Regards -- Mike Leavitt
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 6, 2004
            Hello lady_caritas

            On 07/06/04, you wrote:

            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
            >> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
            >>
            >> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
            >> own work.
            >>
            >> PMCV
            >
            >
            > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out
            > there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet, etc.
            > Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while back.
            > Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved mystery of
            > that section of our "lost" archives.
            >
            > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
            > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share some
            > of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
            >
            >
            > Cari

            Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post archived,
            I have stuff of his going back to 1997.

            Regards
            --
            Mike Leavitt ac998@...
          • lady_caritas
            ... that ... thier ... of ... some ... archived, ... Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don t remember exactly, but it might have been in the latter half of 2001 or soon
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 6, 2004
              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
              > Hello lady_caritas
              >
              > On 07/06/04, you wrote:
              >
              > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
              wrote:
              > >> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book
              that
              > >> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
              > >>
              > >> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of
              thier
              > >> own work.
              > >>
              > >> PMCV
              > >
              > >
              > > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out
              > > there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet, etc.
              > > Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while back.
              > > Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved mystery
              of
              > > that section of our "lost" archives.
              > >
              > > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
              > > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share
              some
              > > of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
              > >
              > >
              > > Cari
              >
              > Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post
              archived,
              > I have stuff of his going back to 1997.
              >
              > Regards
              > --
              > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...

              Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
              the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
              still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
              Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
              He may have some archived himself, too.

              Do you write poetry, Mike?

              Thanks,
              Cari
            • Mike Leavitt
              Hello lady_caritas ... I did some when I was younger, but none of it was good enough to keep. Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 6, 2004
                Hello lady_caritas

                On 07/07/04, you wrote:

                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                >> Hello lady_caritas
                >>
                >> On 07/06/04, you wrote:
                >>
                >>> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
                > wrote:
                >>>> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book
                > that
                >>>> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                >>>>
                >>>> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of
                > thier
                >>>> own work.
                >>>>
                >>>> PMCV
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets
                >> > out there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet,
                >> > etc. Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while
                >> > back. Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved
                >> > mystery
                > of
                >> > that section of our "lost" archives.
                >> >
                >> > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
                >> > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share
                > some
                >>> of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Cari
                >>
                >> Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post
                > archived,
                >> I have stuff of his going back to 1997.
                >>
                >> Regards
                >> --
                >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
                >
                > Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
                > the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
                > still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
                > Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
                > He may have some archived himself, too.
                >
                > Do you write poetry, Mike?
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Cari

                I did some when I was younger, but none of it was good enough to keep.

                Regards
                --
                Mike Leavitt ac998@...
              • Mike Leavitt
                Hello lady_caritas ... P.S. The only poem of his I found in that time frame was a poem about Ash Wednesday to the French Gnostic Church list, I ll have to dig
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 6, 2004
                  Hello lady_caritas

                  On 07/07/04, you wrote:

                  > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                  >> Hello lady_caritas
                  >>
                  >> On 07/06/04, you wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>>> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book
                  > that
                  >>>> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of
                  > thier
                  >>>> own work.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> PMCV
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets
                  >> > out there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet,
                  >> > etc. Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while
                  >> > back. Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved
                  >> > mystery
                  > of
                  >> > that section of our "lost" archives.
                  >> >
                  >> > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
                  >> > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share
                  > some
                  >>> of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> Cari
                  >>
                  >> Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post
                  > archived,
                  >> I have stuff of his going back to 1997.
                  >>
                  >> Regards
                  >> --
                  >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
                  >
                  > Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
                  > the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
                  > still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
                  > Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
                  > He may have some archived himself, too.
                  >
                  > Do you write poetry, Mike?
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Cari

                  P.S. The only poem of his I found in that time frame was a poem about
                  Ash Wednesday to the French Gnostic Church list, I'll have to dig
                  some more.

                  Regards
                  --
                  Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                • pmcvflag
                  Cari said.... Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don t remember exactly, but it might have been in the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were still
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 6, 2004
                    Cari said....

                    "Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
                    the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
                    still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
                    Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
                    He may have some archived himself, too.

                    Do you write poetry, Mike?"

                    I would love to hear some poetry from Mike too!!!

                    In case anyone is curious, Lady Cari is talking about a group I used
                    to run called "PhiloSophia" that delt with esoteric romance... but
                    Yahoo accidentally erased it recently. Specifically, the club delt
                    with troubadours, Dante, but also erotic undertones in some Gnostic
                    texts. Neoplatonic romance is perhaps a better term, since it was
                    from the viewpoint of a specific tradition that had Platonic
                    influence just as Gnosticism does. Anyways, many member here were
                    also over there. I am not sure if I will restart it though.

                    I have the feeling that people here may be waiting for somebody to
                    post first... so I will. Here is one of my poems, and perhaps I will
                    post some of my music here as well (I can't seem to find it right
                    now). Ok, so here I go........

                    Before you start reading, I am not always just an academician... this
                    is my view of esoteric love.... Philo Sophia... step back... take a
                    breath... read slowly...


                    -Can it be light, that guides a heart,
                    unto a face so dead
                    -To it's OWN heart, obsequious,
                    to nothing Eros said
                    -Or darkness be, since I gain not,
                    your mercy, pity, joy
                    -And fail to turn, your thoughts my way,
                    through all at my employ

                    How, love, can I make you understand
                    With nothing more than words to say I burn
                    My heaven and my hell is in your hand
                    Towards it's light, your face, my heart does turn.
                    My eyes accursed brought to me all this pain
                    Your hands, your words, your movements, are my grace.
                    Yet I can't hope your love on me will rain
                    When every flower turns toward your face.


                    PMCV (Aka ATroubadour)
                  • lady_caritas
                    ... And so you did, PMCV, as well as did Jason. Quite wonderful! Thank you. So, okay, I ll post something, and I surely hope more members will, too. I found
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 7, 2004
                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:

                      > I have the feeling that people here may be waiting for somebody to
                      > post first... so I will.


                      And so you did, PMCV, as well as did Jason. Quite wonderful! Thank
                      you.

                      So, okay, I'll post something, and I surely hope more members will,
                      too. I found a poem of mine in a file from that time period I
                      mentioned, Mike, although unfortunately I don't have Terje's. As I
                      recall, there was a new member at that time who was interested in
                      discussing truth, or maybe Truth. ;-) So followed some fun poetry
                      posts about that aeon.
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "Aletheia Dances"

                      Aletheia, Spirit Maiden of Clarity,
                      Reveal yourself to our blind eyes
                      Which seek but phantoms of form familiar
                      So foolishly dressing you in disguise.

                      Though fruitless is our human chase
                      As we fail to fathom immortality,
                      The essence of your pure perfume
                      Entices us to unveil your Reality.

                      Oh, permit us a glimpse of your genuine curve,
                      Even though your quintessence evades us.
                      Aletheia, Beloved Spirit of Trueness,
                      Indulge us with your beatific dances!
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                      Oh, and since PMCV mentioned PhiloSophia and eros, I'll add one I
                      posted at that club a while back.
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "Eros"

                      Arms reaching, fingertips extended,
                      Legs outstretched, toes burrowed in earth.

                      Eros, embrace me,
                      Break my chains.

                      Unsheathe this garment,
                      Let me fly.

                      Lift me from this prison,
                      Desire, free me.

                      Kiss me with your fragrant Secret,
                      Let me find repose.
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    • Mike Leavitt
                      Hello lady_caritas ... A bit more serious than no. 2. Angelius Silesius as translated by Max Heindel: Though Christ a thousand times is Bethlehem be born,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 8, 2004
                        Hello lady_caritas

                        On 07/08/04, you wrote:

                        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> I have the feeling that people here may be waiting for somebody to
                        >> post first... so I will.
                        >
                        >
                        > And so you did, PMCV, as well as did Jason. Quite wonderful! Thank
                        > you.
                        >
                        > So, okay, I'll post something, and I surely hope more members will,
                        > too. I found a poem of mine in a file from that time period I
                        > mentioned, Mike, although unfortunately I don't have Terje's. As I
                        > recall, there was a new member at that time who was interested in
                        > discussing truth, or maybe Truth. ;-) So followed some fun poetry
                        > posts about that aeon.
                        > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        > "Aletheia Dances"

                        A bit more serious than no. 2. Angelius Silesius as translated by Max
                        Heindel:

                        Though Christ a thousand times is Bethlehem be born,
                        Unless within thy heart,
                        Thy soul will be forlorn.

                        The cross on Golgotha thou lookest to in vein,
                        Unless within thy heart,
                        It be set up again.

                        Regards
                        --
                        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
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