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Re: Creativity... modern reflections on Gnosticism

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  • Mike Leavitt
    Hello pmcvflag ... I guess you never looked at THE GNOSTICS AND THEIR REMAINS. :-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 4 10:45 PM
      Hello pmcvflag

      On 07/05/04, you wrote:

      > While we have a multitude of Christian iconography, it really seems
      > that we don't have much in the way of surviving Gnostic art! Any
      > thoughts on that?
      >
      > PMCV

      I guess you never looked at THE GNOSTICS AND THEIR REMAINS. :-)

      Regards
      --
      Mike Leavitt ac998@...
    • pmcvflag
      Hey, Mike. You are right that I only have a vague familiarity with the book The Gnostics and Thier Remains; Ancient and Medieval ... I assume we are talking
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 4 11:29 PM
        Hey, Mike. You are right that I only have a vague familiarity with
        the book "The Gnostics and Thier Remains; Ancient and Medieval"... I
        assume we are talking about the same book, by King. Thumbed through
        and realized I wanted other sources. (maybe I should read it though
        before I really say?)

        However, I did cover that base a bit. The thing I remember is that
        much of the material delt not with Gnosticism, but with Templars,
        Mithraic remains, Serapis, Freemasons... etc. In other words, it
        doesn't exactly answer my topic of art dealing with Gnosticism.

        Of course, I do know that SOME exists. There are pictures in the
        Bruce Codex, there are the so called "Abraxas Gems" (though many of
        them have turned out to be hoaxes), and others besides. But compared
        to the literally millions of pieces of Orthodox, Catholic, and
        Protestant works... this is fairly small.

        However, there are also modern works that are too the point. We all
        know about William Blake, possibly Mellvile, etc., and this is more
        to my point. We have even talked about movies here, but I mean to
        point out pieces that were conciously and directly inspired by
        traditional Gnosticism. ESPECIALLY, pieces by our own club members or
        accounts of inspiration by this group.

        If anyone wanted to post pictures, poetry, musical pieces, etc., that
        you feel is in some way directly related to concepts in traditional
        Gnosticism, I would be interested to hear of them as well as what it
        was that got your creativity flowing.

        PMCV

        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        > Hello pmcvflag
        >
        > On 07/05/04, you wrote:
        >
        > > While we have a multitude of Christian iconography, it really
        seems
        > > that we don't have much in the way of surviving Gnostic art! Any
        > > thoughts on that?
        > >
        > > PMCV
        >
        > I guess you never looked at THE GNOSTICS AND THEIR REMAINS. :-)
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
      • LESLIE BRYON
        I am not an expert but my hymble point of view is that Physics studies the Material World. The same world that the Gnostics considered evil not worth of being
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 5 5:17 AM
          I am not an expert  but my hymble point of view is that Physics studies the Material World. The same world that the Gnostics considered evil not worth of being in because their ideology was set to find an internal truth (espiritual...) and learned how to get back to the pleroma as perfect spiritual things.
          So creation of artistic objects (material things) were not in their scope.
          Again i am not an expert in relifion nor philosophy. I work in the mental health field so i am better with the psychological aspects...
          Leslie from South Florida

          pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
          Ok, considering the recent topic dealing with optimism vs pessimism,
          I wan't to put a spin on it. What if by "optimism" we think of a sort
          of evolution of ideas. What I mean is, life has evolved (well, let's
          not get into that debate anyways)... technology has certainly evolved.

          Let's take the later example actually, I like it.

          If you take the vast majority of modern concepts in physics, atoms,
          heliocentric universe, the earth as a globe, etc., we can actually
          find ancient versions that predate them. Heck, in Alexandria we had
          Heron working with mechanics and magnatism, Eratosthenes calculating
          the circumfrence of the Earth, Aristarchus postulating the movements
          of the planets... including the Earth... around the Sun, Herophilus
          discovering the motor nerves, and the Platonic "Pythagorean" schools
          talking about the evolution of mankind from sea creatures as well as
          the breakup of matter into "atoms", with large amounts of space in
          between.

          There is a difference. Much of what the ancients knew was
          speculation, with very little practical application. It often came
          from a sort of thought experiment rather than any ability to test the
          ideas... and it was often mixed in with things we now know are wrong.

          Ok, but wait a second, I know this does not sound like what I stated
          in my title. Creativity..... I'm thinking here of evolution not as a
          change so much as a building. Part of that building is an epiphany,
          and a creation of something that is added to the previous model...
          which is not a complete rejection of the prior core. In music, true
          creativity is made by breaking rules intentionally, by knowing them
          and going past them.... or, even by working within the rules in such
          a way that an inspiration can be exibited.

          In the field of religion, the "rules" could be partly a matter of
          identity (though I don't mean to imply that is thier only function).

          My question then is this. Have any of you here been specifically
          inspired by Gnosticism, traditional Gnostic beliefs, into creating
          something?

          For those of you who don't know, brother Gerry created our excellent
          image for this club. I know there are some that have been inspired to
          write works of fiction, music, paintings, and the like. Do any of you
          here have anything of the sort to share? Or, if you don't want to
          share, how about the experience of inspiration itself? Does anyone
          have any stories to demonstrate that?

          While we have a multitude of Christian iconography, it really seems
          that we don't have much in the way of surviving Gnostic art! Any
          thoughts on that?

          PMCV

        • pmcvflag
          Ah, but Leslie.... what about the books they created, the mythology... are they not works of art? Art may use a material medium, but that does not mean it s
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 5 11:21 AM
            Ah, but Leslie.... what about the books they created, the
            mythology... are they not works of art? Art may use a material
            medium, but that does not mean it's function is material. There is an
            old saying concerning the person who looks at the finger of the man
            who is pointing. Our subject here is surely meaning, not medium.

            PMCV

            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, LESLIE BRYON <BryonL@p...> wrote:
            > I am not an expert but my hymble point of view is that Physics
            studies the Material World. The same world that the Gnostics
            considered evil not worth of being in because their ideology was set
            to find an internal truth (espiritual...) and learned how to get back
            to the pleroma as perfect spiritual things.
            > So creation of artistic objects (material things) were not in their
            scope.
            > Again i am not an expert in relifion nor philosophy. I work in the
            mental health field so i am better with the psychological aspects...
            > Leslie from South Florida
            >
            > pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            > Ok, considering the recent topic dealing with optimism vs
            pessimism,
            > I wan't to put a spin on it. What if by "optimism" we think of a
            sort
            > of evolution of ideas. What I mean is, life has evolved (well,
            let's
            > not get into that debate anyways)... technology has certainly
            evolved.
            >
            > Let's take the later example actually, I like it.
            >
            > If you take the vast majority of modern concepts in physics, atoms,
            > heliocentric universe, the earth as a globe, etc., we can actually
            > find ancient versions that predate them. Heck, in Alexandria we had
            > Heron working with mechanics and magnatism, Eratosthenes
            calculating
            > the circumfrence of the Earth, Aristarchus postulating the
            movements
            > of the planets... including the Earth... around the Sun, Herophilus
            > discovering the motor nerves, and the Platonic "Pythagorean"
            schools
            > talking about the evolution of mankind from sea creatures as well
            as
            > the breakup of matter into "atoms", with large amounts of space in
            > between.
            >
            > There is a difference. Much of what the ancients knew was
            > speculation, with very little practical application. It often came
            > from a sort of thought experiment rather than any ability to test
            the
            > ideas... and it was often mixed in with things we now know are
            wrong.
            >
            > Ok, but wait a second, I know this does not sound like what I
            stated
            > in my title. Creativity..... I'm thinking here of evolution not as
            a
            > change so much as a building. Part of that building is an epiphany,
            > and a creation of something that is added to the previous model...
            > which is not a complete rejection of the prior core. In music, true
            > creativity is made by breaking rules intentionally, by knowing them
            > and going past them.... or, even by working within the rules in
            such
            > a way that an inspiration can be exibited.
            >
            > In the field of religion, the "rules" could be partly a matter of
            > identity (though I don't mean to imply that is thier only function).
            >
            > My question then is this. Have any of you here been specifically
            > inspired by Gnosticism, traditional Gnostic beliefs, into creating
            > something?
            >
            > For those of you who don't know, brother Gerry created our
            excellent
            > image for this club. I know there are some that have been inspired
            to
            > write works of fiction, music, paintings, and the like. Do any of
            you
            > here have anything of the sort to share? Or, if you don't want to
            > share, how about the experience of inspiration itself? Does anyone
            > have any stories to demonstrate that?
            >
            > While we have a multitude of Christian iconography, it really seems
            > that we don't have much in the way of surviving Gnostic art! Any
            > thoughts on that?
            >
            > PMCV
          • Mike Leavitt
            Hello pmcvflag ... Well you did see the :-), I guess. Actually most of the book deals with what he considers gnostic remains, but of course we know now many
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 5 12:01 PM
              Hello pmcvflag

              On 07/05/04, you wrote:

              > Hey, Mike. You are right that I only have a vague familiarity with
              > the book "The Gnostics and Thier Remains; Ancient and Medieval"... I
              > assume we are talking about the same book, by King. Thumbed through
              > and realized I wanted other sources. (maybe I should read it though
              > before I really say?)
              >
              > However, I did cover that base a bit. The thing I remember is that
              > much of the material dealt not with Gnosticism, but with Templars,
              > Mithraic remains, Serapis, Freemasons... etc. In other words, it
              > doesn't exactly answer my topic of art dealing with Gnosticism.

              Well you did see the :-), I guess. Actually most of the book deals
              with what he considers gnostic remains, but of course we know now
              many were Mithraic, neo-Platonic, etc., but still perhaps originally
              gnostic in origin. For its day it is a good book. None the less,
              the shadow of the third century as Alvin Boyd Kuhn calls it,
              destroyed most gnostic art, especially the big stuff. As King
              himself points out, the gems were saved because they were valuable.
              The book is worth reading, especially if you know enough to
              critically appraise it.

              Regards
              --
              Mike Leavitt ac998@...
            • pmcvflag
              Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that you find especially interesting that you could share with us? Still, I do hope that
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 5 8:51 PM
                Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
                you find especially interesting that you could share with us?

                Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
                own work.

                PMCV

                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                > Hello pmcvflag
                >
                > On 07/05/04, you wrote:
                >
                > > Hey, Mike. You are right that I only have a vague familiarity with
                > > the book "The Gnostics and Thier Remains; Ancient and
                Medieval"... I
                > > assume we are talking about the same book, by King. Thumbed
                through
                > > and realized I wanted other sources. (maybe I should read it
                though
                > > before I really say?)
                > >
                > > However, I did cover that base a bit. The thing I remember is
                that
                > > much of the material dealt not with Gnosticism, but with Templars,
                > > Mithraic remains, Serapis, Freemasons... etc. In other words, it
                > > doesn't exactly answer my topic of art dealing with Gnosticism.
                >
                > Well you did see the :-), I guess. Actually most of the book deals
                > with what he considers gnostic remains, but of course we know now
                > many were Mithraic, neo-Platonic, etc., but still perhaps originally
                > gnostic in origin. For its day it is a good book. None the less,
                > the shadow of the third century as Alvin Boyd Kuhn calls it,
                > destroyed most gnostic art, especially the big stuff. As King
                > himself points out, the gems were saved because they were valuable.
                > The book is worth reading, especially if you know enough to
                > critically appraise it.
                >
                > Regards
                > --
                > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
              • Mike Leavitt
                Hello pmcvflag ... My memory of it is almost all in text small illustrations. There might be a plate or two, but the only one I remember is a fairly large one
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 5 10:09 PM
                  Hello pmcvflag

                  On 07/06/04, you wrote:

                  > Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
                  > you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                  >
                  > Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
                  > own work.
                  >
                  > PMCV

                  My memory of it is almost all in text small illustrations. There
                  might be a plate or two, but the only one I remember is a fairly
                  large one of Abraxus, of dubious origin. I really don't know where
                  the book is right now, alas, my library has been a shambles for
                  years, and my back to bad to move it and reshelve it.

                  Regards
                  --
                  Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                • lady_caritas
                  ... How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out there. No, you don t have to be a professional artist, poet, etc. Heck, I remember
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 6 6:07 AM
                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
                    > you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                    >
                    > Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
                    > own work.
                    >
                    > PMCV


                    How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out
                    there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet, etc.
                    Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while back.
                    Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved mystery of
                    that section of our "lost" archives.

                    Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
                    you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share some
                    of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.


                    Cari
                  • Mike Leavitt
                    Hello lady_caritas ... Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje s post archived, I have stuff of his going back to 1997. Regards -- Mike Leavitt
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 6 6:25 PM
                      Hello lady_caritas

                      On 07/06/04, you wrote:

                      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      >> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book that
                      >> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                      >>
                      >> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of thier
                      >> own work.
                      >>
                      >> PMCV
                      >
                      >
                      > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out
                      > there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet, etc.
                      > Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while back.
                      > Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved mystery of
                      > that section of our "lost" archives.
                      >
                      > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
                      > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share some
                      > of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
                      >
                      >
                      > Cari

                      Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post archived,
                      I have stuff of his going back to 1997.

                      Regards
                      --
                      Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                    • lady_caritas
                      ... that ... thier ... of ... some ... archived, ... Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don t remember exactly, but it might have been in the latter half of 2001 or soon
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 6 8:06 PM
                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                        > Hello lady_caritas
                        >
                        > On 07/06/04, you wrote:
                        >
                        > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > >> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book
                        that
                        > >> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                        > >>
                        > >> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of
                        thier
                        > >> own work.
                        > >>
                        > >> PMCV
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets out
                        > > there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet, etc.
                        > > Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while back.
                        > > Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved mystery
                        of
                        > > that section of our "lost" archives.
                        > >
                        > > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
                        > > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share
                        some
                        > > of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Cari
                        >
                        > Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post
                        archived,
                        > I have stuff of his going back to 1997.
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > --
                        > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...

                        Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
                        the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
                        still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
                        Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
                        He may have some archived himself, too.

                        Do you write poetry, Mike?

                        Thanks,
                        Cari
                      • Mike Leavitt
                        Hello lady_caritas ... I did some when I was younger, but none of it was good enough to keep. Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 6 10:10 PM
                          Hello lady_caritas

                          On 07/07/04, you wrote:

                          > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                          >> Hello lady_caritas
                          >>
                          >> On 07/06/04, you wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
                          > wrote:
                          >>>> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book
                          > that
                          >>>> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of
                          > thier
                          >>>> own work.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> PMCV
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets
                          >> > out there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet,
                          >> > etc. Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while
                          >> > back. Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved
                          >> > mystery
                          > of
                          >> > that section of our "lost" archives.
                          >> >
                          >> > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
                          >> > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share
                          > some
                          >>> of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Cari
                          >>
                          >> Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post
                          > archived,
                          >> I have stuff of his going back to 1997.
                          >>
                          >> Regards
                          >> --
                          >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
                          >
                          > Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
                          > the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
                          > still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
                          > Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
                          > He may have some archived himself, too.
                          >
                          > Do you write poetry, Mike?
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Cari

                          I did some when I was younger, but none of it was good enough to keep.

                          Regards
                          --
                          Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                        • Mike Leavitt
                          Hello lady_caritas ... P.S. The only poem of his I found in that time frame was a poem about Ash Wednesday to the French Gnostic Church list, I ll have to dig
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 6 10:17 PM
                            Hello lady_caritas

                            On 07/07/04, you wrote:

                            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                            >> Hello lady_caritas
                            >>
                            >> On 07/06/04, you wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
                            > wrote:
                            >>>> Cool, well Mike... are there any particular plates in the book
                            > that
                            >>>> you find especially interesting that you could share with us?
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Still, I do hope that somebody here would also share some of
                            > thier
                            >>>> own work.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> PMCV
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> > How about poetry, too? I know there are bound to be some poets
                            >> > out there. No, you don't have to be a professional artist, poet,
                            >> > etc. Heck, I remember Terje and I posting a few poems a while
                            >> > back. Unfortunately, those posts vanished in the still unsolved
                            >> > mystery
                            > of
                            >> > that section of our "lost" archives.
                            >> >
                            >> > Also, PMCV, I know what a devoted Blake fan you are. Perhaps, if
                            >> > you're so inclined at some point, you (and others) could share
                            > some
                            >>> of your insights about Blake regarding things Gnostic.
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> Cari
                            >>
                            >> Do you know the time frame on that, I may have Terje's post
                            > archived,
                            >> I have stuff of his going back to 1997.
                            >>
                            >> Regards
                            >> --
                            >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
                            >
                            > Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
                            > the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
                            > still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
                            > Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
                            > He may have some archived himself, too.
                            >
                            > Do you write poetry, Mike?
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Cari

                            P.S. The only poem of his I found in that time frame was a poem about
                            Ash Wednesday to the French Gnostic Church list, I'll have to dig
                            some more.

                            Regards
                            --
                            Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                          • pmcvflag
                            Cari said.... Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don t remember exactly, but it might have been in the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were still
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 6 10:27 PM
                              Cari said....

                              "Hi, Mike. Gosh, I don't remember exactly, but it might have been in
                              the latter half of 2001 or soon thereafter. It was back when we were
                              still in the Yahoo club format before switching to groups. Actually,
                              Terje posted more poems to another club which doesn't exist anymore.
                              He may have some archived himself, too.

                              Do you write poetry, Mike?"

                              I would love to hear some poetry from Mike too!!!

                              In case anyone is curious, Lady Cari is talking about a group I used
                              to run called "PhiloSophia" that delt with esoteric romance... but
                              Yahoo accidentally erased it recently. Specifically, the club delt
                              with troubadours, Dante, but also erotic undertones in some Gnostic
                              texts. Neoplatonic romance is perhaps a better term, since it was
                              from the viewpoint of a specific tradition that had Platonic
                              influence just as Gnosticism does. Anyways, many member here were
                              also over there. I am not sure if I will restart it though.

                              I have the feeling that people here may be waiting for somebody to
                              post first... so I will. Here is one of my poems, and perhaps I will
                              post some of my music here as well (I can't seem to find it right
                              now). Ok, so here I go........

                              Before you start reading, I am not always just an academician... this
                              is my view of esoteric love.... Philo Sophia... step back... take a
                              breath... read slowly...


                              -Can it be light, that guides a heart,
                              unto a face so dead
                              -To it's OWN heart, obsequious,
                              to nothing Eros said
                              -Or darkness be, since I gain not,
                              your mercy, pity, joy
                              -And fail to turn, your thoughts my way,
                              through all at my employ

                              How, love, can I make you understand
                              With nothing more than words to say I burn
                              My heaven and my hell is in your hand
                              Towards it's light, your face, my heart does turn.
                              My eyes accursed brought to me all this pain
                              Your hands, your words, your movements, are my grace.
                              Yet I can't hope your love on me will rain
                              When every flower turns toward your face.


                              PMCV (Aka ATroubadour)
                            • lady_caritas
                              ... And so you did, PMCV, as well as did Jason. Quite wonderful! Thank you. So, okay, I ll post something, and I surely hope more members will, too. I found
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 7 9:33 PM
                                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:

                                > I have the feeling that people here may be waiting for somebody to
                                > post first... so I will.


                                And so you did, PMCV, as well as did Jason. Quite wonderful! Thank
                                you.

                                So, okay, I'll post something, and I surely hope more members will,
                                too. I found a poem of mine in a file from that time period I
                                mentioned, Mike, although unfortunately I don't have Terje's. As I
                                recall, there was a new member at that time who was interested in
                                discussing truth, or maybe Truth. ;-) So followed some fun poetry
                                posts about that aeon.
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                "Aletheia Dances"

                                Aletheia, Spirit Maiden of Clarity,
                                Reveal yourself to our blind eyes
                                Which seek but phantoms of form familiar
                                So foolishly dressing you in disguise.

                                Though fruitless is our human chase
                                As we fail to fathom immortality,
                                The essence of your pure perfume
                                Entices us to unveil your Reality.

                                Oh, permit us a glimpse of your genuine curve,
                                Even though your quintessence evades us.
                                Aletheia, Beloved Spirit of Trueness,
                                Indulge us with your beatific dances!
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                Oh, and since PMCV mentioned PhiloSophia and eros, I'll add one I
                                posted at that club a while back.
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                "Eros"

                                Arms reaching, fingertips extended,
                                Legs outstretched, toes burrowed in earth.

                                Eros, embrace me,
                                Break my chains.

                                Unsheathe this garment,
                                Let me fly.

                                Lift me from this prison,
                                Desire, free me.

                                Kiss me with your fragrant Secret,
                                Let me find repose.
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              • Mike Leavitt
                                Hello lady_caritas ... A bit more serious than no. 2. Angelius Silesius as translated by Max Heindel: Though Christ a thousand times is Bethlehem be born,
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 8 8:01 AM
                                  Hello lady_caritas

                                  On 07/08/04, you wrote:

                                  > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> I have the feeling that people here may be waiting for somebody to
                                  >> post first... so I will.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > And so you did, PMCV, as well as did Jason. Quite wonderful! Thank
                                  > you.
                                  >
                                  > So, okay, I'll post something, and I surely hope more members will,
                                  > too. I found a poem of mine in a file from that time period I
                                  > mentioned, Mike, although unfortunately I don't have Terje's. As I
                                  > recall, there was a new member at that time who was interested in
                                  > discussing truth, or maybe Truth. ;-) So followed some fun poetry
                                  > posts about that aeon.
                                  > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  > "Aletheia Dances"

                                  A bit more serious than no. 2. Angelius Silesius as translated by Max
                                  Heindel:

                                  Though Christ a thousand times is Bethlehem be born,
                                  Unless within thy heart,
                                  Thy soul will be forlorn.

                                  The cross on Golgotha thou lookest to in vein,
                                  Unless within thy heart,
                                  It be set up again.

                                  Regards
                                  --
                                  Mike Leavitt ac998@...
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