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Re: Who (or what) is "THE DEVIL"?/Great Fall of the Spirits

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  • pmcvflag
    BTW, Fred, Couliano is also a very poor source for this kind of thing.... and please, don t throw Eliade into the mix, we wish to maintain some integrety here
    Message 1 of 74 , Jun 4, 2004
      BTW, Fred, Couliano is also a very poor source for this kind of
      thing.... and please, don't throw Eliade into the mix, we wish to
      maintain some integrety here concerning the history of our subject.

      PMCV

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, fred60471 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
      >
      > > Okay, Fred, then perhaps you could expand more on how you are
      using
      > > the term, "immanence"?
      > >
      > > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=immanence
      > >
      > > And considering your definition, can you provide other passages
      in
      > > Gnostic scripture to exemplify this?
      > >
      > >
      > > Cari
      >
      > Hi Lady C,
      >
      > I would define "divine immanence" as the state of things as a
      result
      > of an emanationist process. It is a well accepted part of the
      system
      > of Valentinus and Basilides. In fact so well known, the system of
      > successive links of Being which goes to descending levels, that it
      is
      > known by the shorthand term, the "Alexandrian schema." It is shared
      > by both Gnostics and the Hermetists, as well as the Platonists and
      > Neoplatonists.
      >
      > "... it is inherited by Plotinus from the Gnostic system he
      attacks.
      > The thinking of the first Neoplatonist comprises an apostrophç (in
      > Latin, processio), or estrangement from the essence of Being, which
      > humans alone can make good by the opposite process of epistrophç
      > (conversio) or return to Being.
      >
      > ... The theme of concordia discors between Plotinus and the
      Gnostics
      > (whom he fights--by proxy, so to speak--in his Enneads, II, 9) ...
      is
      > one of the favorite subjects of Hans Jonas, ... he confided to me
      > that he no longer feels up to realizing the dream of his youth--to
      > write the long-planned book in which he would show that Plotinus is
      > the metaphysical continuator of the Gnostics ... In substance,
      > Plotinus' adversaries profess a doctrine with traces of Valentinian
      > Gnosticism: they believe that the world and its creator are evil
      and
      > that the very soul of the world has undergone a decline; as for
      > Plotinus himself, the creator of the cosmos can only be good, the
      > cosmos necessary to the perfection of the world and the soul of the
      > world being above mutability. It is only individual souls that
      fall.
      > Nevertheless, Plotinus' schema of the emanation of Being (the so-
      > called "Alexandrian schema") which is at the same time a gradual
      > descent of Intellect towards matter, stems from a process of
      > devolution (Hans Jonas' term) typical of the Syro-Egyptian Gnostic
      > systems.
      > (Couliano, EMR)
      >
      > Regards,
      > fred
    • George Harvey
      ... a ... Gnostic ... Hi Mike, Thank you. I suspected she was wrong but didn t know for sure. George
      Message 74 of 74 , Jun 16, 2004
        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        > Hello George
        >
        > On 06/16/04, you wrote:
        >
        > > Hi Mike,
        > > Someone on my list said modern Gnostic churches do not allow women
        > > to be priests. Is that true of your church?
        > >
        > > George
        >
        > Stephan ordained Rosa Miller to the priesthood, and consecrated her
        a
        > bishop. We currently have two active women priests, and an active
        > woman deacon or three, I can't keep up with it. The short answer is
        > no it is not true of our church, nor is it true of the French
        Gnostic
        > Church, our confederate. It may be true of some more traditionally
        > Catholic Gnostic churches, milage may vary. Years ago I asked an
        > old Liberal Catholic Priest (they have no women in orders to this
        > day), "how can you deny one of the sacraments to half the human
        > race." He was stunned by the question, and said that was the only
        > thing anyone had said to him that gave him doubts about the all male
        > clergy.
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...

        Hi Mike,
        Thank you. I suspected she was wrong but didn't know for sure.

        George
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