Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Who (or what) is "THE DEVIL"?/Great Fall of the Spirits

Expand Messages
  • pmcvflag
    Fred, I have already pointed our far better scholors than Jonas who express exactly the same concern that I do. In fact, Hans Jonas is not a scholor of Gnostic
    Message 1 of 74 , Jun 4, 2004
      Fred, I have already pointed our far better scholors than Jonas who
      express exactly the same concern that I do.

      In fact, Hans Jonas is not a scholor of Gnostic history at all, but
      of philosophy.... perhaps you would do better to read something a bit
      more critical. Jonas is simply repeating outdated scholorship and
      trumping it up to an almost "Da Vinci Code" level. Don't get me
      wrong, Jonas has some true value, but he is also way off the deep end
      sometimes.

      Jonas' assurtions here are false, and more recent scholors are
      leaving such silly sensationalism behind for a more critical stance.

      PMCV


      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, fred60471 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      >
      > > Hey Fred
      > >
      > > Actually it is probably good you ask these questions. I do
      > sometimes
      > > get used to talking to others here who are familiar with the
      > > historical sources, and forget that there will be a number here
      who
      > > may not know what I am talking about, but feel shy to ask. So, to
      > > start with your questions....
      >
      > I feel familiar with the historical sources, I just needed a clue
      as
      > to what you were talking about.
      >
      > > Frankly though, the term "dualist" is really kind of unnecessary
      in
      > our study of Gnosticism, since nearly everyone is dualist to some
      > extent.
      >
      > I think dualism is an essential feature of Gnosticism, that is so
      > well accepted by scholars that it hardly requires any arguement.
      But,
      > now I see why you are so reluctant to stipulate that fact and wish
      to
      > suppress it. That Gnosticism is an emanationist philosophy is also
      > quite apparent.
      >
      > "Gnosticism has been the most radical embodiment of dualism ever to
      > have appeared on the stage of history... It is a split between the
      > self and world, men's alienation from nature, the metaphysical
      > devaluation of nature, the cosmic solitude of the spirit and the
      > nihilism of mundane norms; and in its general extremist style is
      > shows what radicalism really is."
      > (Hans Jonas)
      >
      > Regards,
      > fred
    • George Harvey
      ... a ... Gnostic ... Hi Mike, Thank you. I suspected she was wrong but didn t know for sure. George
      Message 74 of 74 , Jun 16, 2004
        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        > Hello George
        >
        > On 06/16/04, you wrote:
        >
        > > Hi Mike,
        > > Someone on my list said modern Gnostic churches do not allow women
        > > to be priests. Is that true of your church?
        > >
        > > George
        >
        > Stephan ordained Rosa Miller to the priesthood, and consecrated her
        a
        > bishop. We currently have two active women priests, and an active
        > woman deacon or three, I can't keep up with it. The short answer is
        > no it is not true of our church, nor is it true of the French
        Gnostic
        > Church, our confederate. It may be true of some more traditionally
        > Catholic Gnostic churches, milage may vary. Years ago I asked an
        > old Liberal Catholic Priest (they have no women in orders to this
        > day), "how can you deny one of the sacraments to half the human
        > race." He was stunned by the question, and said that was the only
        > thing anyone had said to him that gave him doubts about the all male
        > clergy.
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...

        Hi Mike,
        Thank you. I suspected she was wrong but didn't know for sure.

        George
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.