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Re: In your heart or in the sky?

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  • lady_caritas
    ... in ... Mike, I just checked out the link on The Gnostic Society page. Oh, my! I presume no one was hurt(?), and it s good that you managed to retrieve
    Message 1 of 6 , May 8 5:57 AM
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      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      > Hello All,
      >
      > Before you scan the gnosis.org site and freak out, yes there was a
      > fire at out church in Hollywood, and as the pictures there so
      > graphically show it is an old building now beyond repair. We have
      > temporary quarters in the Hollywood Theosophical Society -- Besant
      > Lodge, a grand old building we have used before (I was ordained
      > there), and it would be wonderful for a permanent place except
      > parking is absolutely horrible, and it takes forever to get there on
      > the bus.
      >
      > I have some reason to believe we will find more suitable quarters in
      > the near future. We will be back up for Sunday mass, which is
      > important because we have not missed on in the last 30 years, maybe
      > 40. All our church goods (ie. Chalices and Vestments) made it out
      in
      > one piece, and only one set of curtains got water on them, so we are
      > blessed that way.
      >
      >
      > Regards
      > --
      > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


      Mike, I just checked out the link on "The Gnostic Society" page. Oh,
      my!

      I presume no one was hurt(?), and it's good that you managed to
      retrieve your church goods. I hope you find permanent, suitable
      quarters in the near future.

      Cari
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello lady_caritas ... Sorry about not changing the subject line last time, I m still a bit shook, I don t know all the details, but someone must have been
      Message 2 of 6 , May 8 10:38 AM
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        Hello lady_caritas

        On 05/08/04, you wrote:

        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        >> Hello All,
        >>
        >> Before you scan the gnosis.org site and freak out, yes there was a
        >> fire at out church in Hollywood, and as the pictures there so
        >> graphically show it is an old building now beyond repair. We have
        >> temporary quarters in the Hollywood Theosophical Society -- Besant
        >> Lodge, a grand old building we have used before (I was ordained
        >> there), and it would be wonderful for a permanent place except
        >> parking is absolutely horrible, and it takes forever to get there
        >> on the bus.
        >>
        >> I have some reason to believe we will find more suitable quarters
        >> in the near future. We will be back up for Sunday mass, which is
        >> important because we have not missed on in the last 30 years, maybe
        >> 40. All our church goods (ie. Chalices and Vestments) made it out
        > in
        >> one piece, and only one set of curtains got water on them, so we
        >> are blessed that way.
        >>
        >>
        >> Regards
        >> --
        >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
        >
        >
        > Mike, I just checked out the link on "The Gnostic Society" page. Oh,
        > my!
        >
        > I presume no one was hurt(?), and it's good that you managed to
        > retrieve your church goods. I hope you find permanent, suitable
        > quarters in the near future.
        >
        > Cari

        Sorry about not changing the subject line last time, I'm still a bit
        shook, I don't know all the details, but someone must have been there
        when the fire started or we could never have saved virtually
        everything. God takes care of fools and young children. :-) Anyway,
        we may just have new permanent quarters lined up, but until things
        get settled we will be at Besant Lodge, a grand old building,
        originally a theater. If parking weren't such a problem, we could
        stay there forever, but parking is a problem, and the bus does not
        run frequently, though it lets you out right in front of the door!
        We will live with it until something more permanent is firmed up.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • lady_caritas
        ... does ... Hi, Dan. My aim is not at all to trivialize recent conversation, but I have to admit that with recent discussion about up and down, ascension and
        Message 3 of 6 , May 9 8:42 AM
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Dan & Renee" <kiseek@i...> wrote:
          > Hello folks.
          > I have often wondered why, if being a christian means to accept
          > jesus into your heart, are you taught to pray to him as if he is in
          > the sky. I realize there is this whole thing about jesus ascending
          > to heaven to be at the right hand of the father, but that still
          does
          > not answer my question. If you ask jesus to come into your heart
          > then you should look inside for all the answers ... right?
          >
          > Thank you for your time,
          > Dan



          Hi, Dan. My aim is not at all to trivialize recent conversation, but
          I have to admit that with recent discussion about up and down,
          ascension and descension, inside and outside and now the right hand,
          I'm reminded of the dance, the hokey-pokey.

          For anyone old enough to remember this dance, the verses instructed
          dancers to put various body parts (right hand, left hand, etc.) in
          and out and then shake 'em all about. And then, at the end:

          You put your whole self in,
          You put your whole self out;
          You put your whole self in,
          And you shake it all about.
          You do the Hokey-Pokey,
          And you turn yourself around.
          That's what it's all about.

          Depending how much energy one expended during the dance with all that
          turning about, although most likely not reaching a state of frenzy
          that a whirling Sufi might, one could lose a sense of balance with
          all that twirling. Are we in or out or roundabout?

          And, I'm also reminded of Mike's koan I quoted recently, "The way out
          is in. But, sometimes the way in is from the outside."

          Our temporal consciousness grasps for understanding via the
          referential opposites of our existence. The precaution as I see it
          and how you seem to have expressed it, Dan, is that one need not take
          mythology or allegory absolutely literally. That is when we see
          people believing in literal, existing skygods.

          _The Gospel of Philip_ states, "Just so, in the world human beings
          make gods and bow down to their products: it would be more fitting
          for the gods to worship human beings!"

          Jungians might call this "projecting." So, what are human beings
          projecting, and is that a bad thing? Stephan Hoeller discusses
          Jungian projection a bit in his web lectures on "The Alchemy of Love"
          ( http://gnosis.org/lectures.html ). The psyche involves more than
          our consciousness. There is the unconscious. Jung believed that all
          humans project onto the world and their human relationships. I don't
          want to turn this into a psychological discussion, but the point here
          is that humans are not always aware of the source of their
          expressions. And, the Gnostics, as evidenced in their writings,
          heartily promoted self-acquaintance. I believe this self-
          acquaintance can take many levels, hylic, psychic, and pneumatic.
          The process of Gnosis might involve a deliberate peeling away of
          layers of ignorance. And, one of the ways is becoming acquainted
          with ourselves and sources of our motivations.

          We have seen discussed already the technique of meditation. Hoeller,
          in his lecture, describes a difference between Eastern and Western
          methods. He believes that meditation has a place regarding
          introspection, but that expansion and growth of consciousness,
          energizing meaningful living, is accomplished by way of projection of
          our unconscious.

          Projections not understood can sometimes be dangerous, for instance
          when we project our shadow onto other humans who become "the enemy."
          Our world history is replete with the disastrous consequences of such
          unawareness. But, attempting to *understand* our projections helps
          toward unification with our own hidden nature. IOW, what do these
          skygods represent? Do we come to an impasse by not recognizing
          projections, by revering our psychic gods and hypostatizing our
          demons instead of learning about ourselves from them?

          The ancient Gnostics knew that "truth did not come to the world
          nakedly; rather, it came in prototypes and images: the world will not
          accept it in any other form." (GPh) Their mythologies are replete
          with elaborate imagery, and they take the time to differentiate
          between projections of psychic images and incorruptible pneumatic
          truth. I suppose that higher intuitive element that PMCV talks about
          comes into play in recognizing the difference.

          The way out is in. But, sometimes the way in is from the outside.


          Cari
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