Re: In your heart or in the sky?
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
> Hello All,in
> Before you scan the gnosis.org site and freak out, yes there was a
> fire at out church in Hollywood, and as the pictures there so
> graphically show it is an old building now beyond repair. We have
> temporary quarters in the Hollywood Theosophical Society -- Besant
> Lodge, a grand old building we have used before (I was ordained
> there), and it would be wonderful for a permanent place except
> parking is absolutely horrible, and it takes forever to get there on
> the bus.
> I have some reason to believe we will find more suitable quarters in
> the near future. We will be back up for Sunday mass, which is
> important because we have not missed on in the last 30 years, maybe
> 40. All our church goods (ie. Chalices and Vestments) made it out
> one piece, and only one set of curtains got water on them, so we areMike, I just checked out the link on "The Gnostic Society" page. Oh,
> blessed that way.
> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
I presume no one was hurt(?), and it's good that you managed to
retrieve your church goods. I hope you find permanent, suitable
quarters in the near future.
- Hello lady_caritas
On 05/08/04, you wrote:
> --- In email@example.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> Before you scan the gnosis.org site and freak out, yes there was a
>> fire at out church in Hollywood, and as the pictures there so
>> graphically show it is an old building now beyond repair. We have
>> temporary quarters in the Hollywood Theosophical Society -- Besant
>> Lodge, a grand old building we have used before (I was ordained
>> there), and it would be wonderful for a permanent place except
>> parking is absolutely horrible, and it takes forever to get there
>> on the bus.
>> I have some reason to believe we will find more suitable quarters
>> in the near future. We will be back up for Sunday mass, which is
>> important because we have not missed on in the last 30 years, maybe
>> 40. All our church goods (ie. Chalices and Vestments) made it out
>> one piece, and only one set of curtains got water on them, so we
>> are blessed that way.
>> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
> Mike, I just checked out the link on "The Gnostic Society" page. Oh,
> I presume no one was hurt(?), and it's good that you managed to
> retrieve your church goods. I hope you find permanent, suitable
> quarters in the near future.
Sorry about not changing the subject line last time, I'm still a bit
shook, I don't know all the details, but someone must have been there
when the fire started or we could never have saved virtually
everything. God takes care of fools and young children. :-) Anyway,
we may just have new permanent quarters lined up, but until things
get settled we will be at Besant Lodge, a grand old building,
originally a theater. If parking weren't such a problem, we could
stay there forever, but parking is a problem, and the bus does not
run frequently, though it lets you out right in front of the door!
We will live with it until something more permanent is firmed up.
Mike Leavitt ac998@...
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Dan & Renee" <kiseek@i...> wrote:
> Hello folks.does
> I have often wondered why, if being a christian means to accept
> jesus into your heart, are you taught to pray to him as if he is in
> the sky. I realize there is this whole thing about jesus ascending
> to heaven to be at the right hand of the father, but that still
> not answer my question. If you ask jesus to come into your heartHi, Dan. My aim is not at all to trivialize recent conversation, but
> then you should look inside for all the answers ... right?
> Thank you for your time,
I have to admit that with recent discussion about up and down,
ascension and descension, inside and outside and now the right hand,
I'm reminded of the dance, the hokey-pokey.
For anyone old enough to remember this dance, the verses instructed
dancers to put various body parts (right hand, left hand, etc.) in
and out and then shake 'em all about. And then, at the end:
You put your whole self in,
You put your whole self out;
You put your whole self in,
And you shake it all about.
You do the Hokey-Pokey,
And you turn yourself around.
That's what it's all about.
Depending how much energy one expended during the dance with all that
turning about, although most likely not reaching a state of frenzy
that a whirling Sufi might, one could lose a sense of balance with
all that twirling. Are we in or out or roundabout?
And, I'm also reminded of Mike's koan I quoted recently, "The way out
is in. But, sometimes the way in is from the outside."
Our temporal consciousness grasps for understanding via the
referential opposites of our existence. The precaution as I see it
and how you seem to have expressed it, Dan, is that one need not take
mythology or allegory absolutely literally. That is when we see
people believing in literal, existing skygods.
_The Gospel of Philip_ states, "Just so, in the world human beings
make gods and bow down to their products: it would be more fitting
for the gods to worship human beings!"
Jungians might call this "projecting." So, what are human beings
projecting, and is that a bad thing? Stephan Hoeller discusses
Jungian projection a bit in his web lectures on "The Alchemy of Love"
( http://gnosis.org/lectures.html ). The psyche involves more than
our consciousness. There is the unconscious. Jung believed that all
humans project onto the world and their human relationships. I don't
want to turn this into a psychological discussion, but the point here
is that humans are not always aware of the source of their
expressions. And, the Gnostics, as evidenced in their writings,
heartily promoted self-acquaintance. I believe this self-
acquaintance can take many levels, hylic, psychic, and pneumatic.
The process of Gnosis might involve a deliberate peeling away of
layers of ignorance. And, one of the ways is becoming acquainted
with ourselves and sources of our motivations.
We have seen discussed already the technique of meditation. Hoeller,
in his lecture, describes a difference between Eastern and Western
methods. He believes that meditation has a place regarding
introspection, but that expansion and growth of consciousness,
energizing meaningful living, is accomplished by way of projection of
Projections not understood can sometimes be dangerous, for instance
when we project our shadow onto other humans who become "the enemy."
Our world history is replete with the disastrous consequences of such
unawareness. But, attempting to *understand* our projections helps
toward unification with our own hidden nature. IOW, what do these
skygods represent? Do we come to an impasse by not recognizing
projections, by revering our psychic gods and hypostatizing our
demons instead of learning about ourselves from them?
The ancient Gnostics knew that "truth did not come to the world
nakedly; rather, it came in prototypes and images: the world will not
accept it in any other form." (GPh) Their mythologies are replete
with elaborate imagery, and they take the time to differentiate
between projections of psychic images and incorruptible pneumatic
truth. I suppose that higher intuitive element that PMCV talks about
comes into play in recognizing the difference.
The way out is in. But, sometimes the way in is from the outside.