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Re: Valentine Anthropology

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  • lady_caritas
    ... to ... of ... everyone . ... to ... vital, ... or ... pneuma ... working ... to ... Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint. Many
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 4, 2004
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "naturesgipsy" <camarwick@x>
      wrote:
      > Hi Cari
      > Having reviewed the link you gave me I can see how my answer looked
      > confused.
      > I find the concept of the three types of mankind quite easy to
      > comprehend. But before I explain my thoughts on the matter I want
      to
      > make it clear that I'm no expert, and that the following are purely
      > my understanding of the data to hand.
      >
      > Firstly, the parameters I work within for considering the concept
      of
      > human 'salvation' are, for The Cosmos, Deity, Salvation and Human
      > Being are all broadly based on the definitions given in "A BRIEF
      > SUMMARY OF GNOSTICISM www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm.. Also being a
      > Quaker my primary belief is 'that there is that of God in
      everyone'.
      > By this I'm not refering to the soul but an actual element of God's
      > being in the form of light burning inside us. This fits well with
      > the GOSPEL OF TRUTH which describes all humanity as being elements
      > of God, who should be yearning to return to God.
      >
      > However, anguish has brought about forgetfulness and obliviousness
      to
      > God's existance, which was remedied by the coming of Christ.
      > The term Hylic refers to those who are still oblivious to the
      > existance of God. Without the knowledge of God the hylic does not
      > know that there is a choice (election) to be made and by default
      > cannot be saved. The term Psychic in this context, refers to those
      > who how have 'knowledge' of God and who are aware that there are
      > choices to be made. The psychic is able to test and increase their
      > knowledge of God and to make the choice to work towards pneuma, and
      > rejoinging with God. In this sense then the psychic stage is
      vital,
      > as it is when freedom of choice comes into play, weather to go on
      or
      > to stay where they are. The psychics who do not work towards
      pneuma
      > but who are still saved are those in whom the light of God burns
      > bright.
      >
      > Now days working towards pneuma is often known as walking or
      working
      > in the light, or the path of Love, Light and Truth,and many choose
      to
      > work towards it.
      > I hope this helps
      > Caz


      Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint.
      Many might find some similarities to Gnostics in that "there is that
      of God in everyone." There are some important differences, too, that
      I see. Probably the concept of God seems to be significant to me.
      The Gnostic "god" classically is beyond "godbeing," beyond what we
      perceive as "existence," and actually is an infinite and ineffable
      prime source.

      I found the following link interesting. It describes various streams
      of theology found in Quakerism. How would you describe a modern
      sense of God in Quakerism in comparison to the ineffable, infinite
      prime source in Gnosticism?

      http://www.crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/QuakerBeliefs.htm


      Cari
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello lady_caritas ... This might depend on the background of the Quaker. Fox admired Jacob Boehme, and the continental quakers actually look to him as their
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 4, 2004
        Hello lady_caritas

        On 04-Feb-04, you wrote:
        > Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint.
        > Many might find some similarities to Gnostics in that "there is that
        > of God in everyone." There are some important differences, too, that
        > I see. Probably the concept of God seems to be significant to me.
        > The Gnostic "god" classically is beyond "godbeing," beyond what we
        > perceive as "existence," and actually is an infinite and ineffable
        > prime source.
        >
        > I found the following link interesting. It describes various streams
        > of theology found in Quakerism. How would you describe a modern
        > sense of God in Quakerism in comparison to the ineffable, infinite
        > prime source in Gnosticism?

        This might depend on the background of the Quaker. Fox admired Jacob
        Boehme, and the continental quakers actually look to him as their
        founder. My grandmother came from a continental quaker background,
        and told me when I got older to read him, if I wanted to understand
        the deeper side of life. Boehme talks about the evil in God, and
        darned if this doesn't sound Gnostic in tone. Of course he is still
        one of my heros, but I can't read to much of him at one sitting, as I
        just float off into....well sometimes the abyss, and sometimes bliss.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • lady_caritas
        ... that ... that ... streams ... Jacob ... I ... bliss. ... as a reflection of God,... that would undoubtedly suggest abyss/bliss conflict. He influenced
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 5, 2004
          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
          > Hello lady_caritas
          >
          > On 04-Feb-04, you wrote:
          > > Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint.
          > > Many might find some similarities to Gnostics in that "there is
          that
          > > of God in everyone." There are some important differences, too,
          that
          > > I see. Probably the concept of God seems to be significant to me.
          > > The Gnostic "god" classically is beyond "godbeing," beyond what we
          > > perceive as "existence," and actually is an infinite and ineffable
          > > prime source.
          > >
          > > I found the following link interesting. It describes various
          streams
          > > of theology found in Quakerism. How would you describe a modern
          > > sense of God in Quakerism in comparison to the ineffable, infinite
          > > prime source in Gnosticism?
          >
          > This might depend on the background of the Quaker. Fox admired
          Jacob
          > Boehme, and the continental quakers actually look to him as their
          > founder. My grandmother came from a continental quaker background,
          > and told me when I got older to read him, if I wanted to understand
          > the deeper side of life. Boehme talks about the evil in God, and
          > darned if this doesn't sound Gnostic in tone. Of course he is still
          > one of my heros, but I can't read to much of him at one sitting, as
          I
          > just float off into....well sometimes the abyss, and sometimes
          bliss.
          >
          > Regards
          > --
          > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


          :-) No doubt, Mike. Considering that Jakob Boehme viewed creation
          as a reflection of God,... that would undoubtedly suggest abyss/bliss
          conflict. He influenced other theologians and writers like William
          Blake and John Wesley. I admire some of these early vanguards in
          modern Christianity who pushed a few limits. Those more "deviating"
          Protestants like Boehme and Wesley even tweaked the theology of other
          Protestants of their day. Boehme, who emphasized inner spiritual
          life, was highly regarded by John Wesley, who required his preachers
          to study Boehme's writings. Immersed in Christian culture, they
          still didn't break loose from the tethers of sin/atonement theology
          though.

          Nonetheless, I suppose this same protesting spirit of mine growing up
          found a spark in some of their ideas. I remember learning about the
          Wesleyan "quadrilateral," four influences Wesley emphasized in
          formulating Christian views. These were: Scripture, Tradition,
          Reason, and Experience. Now, of course, Wesley used this system of
          checks and balances within the context of believing the Bible was
          authoritative.

          I continued the renegade tradition, did a bit of tweaking myself and
          applied reason and experience to explore traditions and scriptures
          outside the orthodox Christian fold, thereby eventually finding a
          more suitable, nonrestrictive milieu for my continuing experiences.
          Interesting the paths we travel...


          Cari
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