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Re: Valentinian anthropology

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  • eyeambetty
    ... creation ... totally ... from ... love, ... Hi LightPotential, i was trying to explain what i meant in context to what i had wrote in my previous post, so
    Message 1 of 78 , Feb 2, 2004
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      > > lightpotential wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Indeed it is interesting to consider, how would one know light
      > > > without darkness? I do think that there are entities in
      > > that
      > > > do partake of only one of these. That is, beings that are
      > > at
      > > > one with the 'concept' of love, who simply do not know of
      > darkness,
      > > > and also, beings of such malevalence that are so completely
      > > ignorant
      > > > of goodness. It is possible for some entities to know only one
      > > > quality, without the other, I think. We humans are in fact in a
      > > most
      > > > interesting state of being in that we can contemplate both,
      > > > a 'stand-off' position and choose, through our actions, whether
      > to
      > > > manifest as beings of light or darkness. This is one of our
      > > essential
      > > > characteristics, I think.
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi LightPotential,
      > >
      > > In contemplating beings that are at one with the 'concept' of
      > > or beings that are completely ignorant of goodness, how does one
      > come
      > > to understand either one without an understanding of both?
      > > for example, if i saw a being of complete love, part of my
      > > understanding and recognition is informed by what i know it is
      > > ignorance of goodness,malevalence,and darkness, and this, in
      > contrast
      > > to what i understand and recognize as it's qualities which are
      > love,
      > > light,compassion.

      Hi LightPotential,
      i was trying to explain what i meant in context to what i had wrote
      in my previous post, so i guess we agree on that point, color me

      LightPotential wrote:
      > You essentially raise the very point that I made myself, which was
      > the uniqueness of the human condition, in that we, as it even says
      > the Bible, can know good and evil. If we recall through, prior to
      > event of eating the fruit, Adam and Eve were in a state of

      well, the Gnostics seem to have a very different idea of this event.
      in the text from the Nag Hammadi Library called "On the Origin of the
      World" it says:
      "Then came the wisest of all creatures, who was called Beast. And
      when he saw the likeness of their mother Eve he said to her,"What did
      God say to you? Was it 'Do not eat from the knowledge'? She said "He
      said not only 'Do not eat from it", but, 'Do not touch, lest you
      die." He said to her, "Do not be afraid. In death you shall not die.
      For he knows that when you eat from it, your intellect will become
      sober and you will come to be like gods, recognizing the difference
      that obtains between evil men and good ones. Indeed, it was in
      jealousy that he said this to you, so that you would not eat from it."

      after they eat of the tree of knowledge it says:
      "Then their intellect became open. For when they had eaten, the light
      of knowledge had shown upon them. When they clothed themselves with
      shame, they knew they were naked of knowledge."

      well, then the authorities freak out and curse them, because they are
      powerless. however, they set out to test Adam's knowledge.
      it goes on to say:
      "They became troubled because Adam had recovered from all the trial.
      They assembled and laid plans, and they said, "Behold Adam! He has
      come to be like one of us, so that he knows the difference between
      light and darkness. Now, perhaps he will be deceived, as in the case
      of the Tree of Knowledge, and also will come to the Tree of Life and
      eat from it and become immortal, and becaome lord, and despise us and
      disdain us and all our glory! Then he will denounce us along with our
      universe. Come, let us expel him from Paradise, down to the land from
      which he was taken, so that he might not be able to recognize
      anything better than we can."

      > Obviously, from a gnostic perspective more could be read into this
      > story, for 'God' in this example can be interpreted to be the
      > Demiurge. However, be that as it may, the idea that I am trying to
      > put forward is that beings of love can be innocence in their
      > essential nature, such that they do not comprehend evil, and
      > likewise, a truly malevalent being acts blindly, because they too
      > not comprehend goodness. In both instances, such beings are not
      > to consider or deliberate on such matters. Humans on the other
      > are. I believe that we possess a certain capability that does allow
      > us to contemplate both natures. We can contrast them, as we see
      > manifested in the world. Some beings, I believe truly do exist,
      > do not possess this ability.

      LightPotential, i guess i don't quite understand what you mean by
      beings other than humans, are you speaking of beings that have
      influence upon humans in their essential natures? Spirits and Demons?

    • Gerry
      ... from ... amount ... out ... combat ... order ... pain ... revising ... unwittingly ... have ... And a perfectly topical testimonial it was, Betty. :-) I
      Message 78 of 78 , Feb 25, 2004
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "eyeambetty" <eyeambetty@y...>
        > Hello Gerry,
        > previous to any spiritual context, i thought my inclination towards
        > introspection, and preference for solitude were products of my
        > upbringing. i've always felt alienated from others, painfully so
        > my family, i turned inward and developed a relationship with myself
        > early on. i don't think anyone escapes internalizing a certain
        > of the "darkness", meaning those raging, critical voices that
        > manifest out of false concepts, that have been shaped by external
        > influences during the development of our consciousness. it seems
        > of necessity, that i began to question and reflect in order to
        > those insidious voices that prodded at me to do this or that in
        > to be good, worthy, lovable and on and on... all i found was
        > emptiness in those pursuits, but the experiences were valuable
        > lessons because of the awareness i had. in my twenties, i began a
        > process of going thru all the garbage, finding the sources of my
        > and suffering, alongside new experiences, really distinguishing
        > between my true self and my false self. studying fine art, and
        > becoming an artist is what gave me a model for expanding and
        > my concepts and a voice/tool with which to express/communicate my
        > perceptions.
        > so now in my thirties, having created a space inside, and
        > prepared myself to recieve a series of transformational experiences
        > that eventually lead me to find Gnosticism, i can't help but think
        > that i was always headed in this direction. however, if you would
        > have told me 2 or 3 years ago this is where i would be, i would
        > surely laughed.
        > sorry, i didn't mean to write a testimonial...
        > sincerely,betty.

        And a perfectly topical testimonial it was, Betty. :-)

        I very much relate to much of your experience, although for me, I
        don't think the introspection and preference for solitude were as
        much products of my upbringing as simply genetic. Two other members
        of my immediate family are the same way, and I see numerous examples
        in the extended family as well.

        Your concluding remarks, also, I find have an especially familiar
        ring. In many ways, I can look back over the course of my life and
        see how differently my views have changed, but at the same time, even
        though I would have had no idea what Gnosticism was all about way
        back then, I feel as though there was always something "different" in
        the way I saw things, and that I was always being drawn in this
        direction. Odd, since my somewhat conventional upbringing was never
        so steeped in the mainstream as to ever make me really comfortable
        with orthodox beliefs, and yet, those beliefs that I *did* have
        weren't exactly like what we're discussing here today, either——sort
        of like realizing that deep within there must have always existed a
        gemstone in the rough. Chipping away at the crust around it takes us
        back to Mike's comment about the "refined perception."

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