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Re: Valentine Anthropology

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  • naturesgipsy
    Hi Cari Having reviewed the link you gave me I can see how my answer looked confused. I find the concept of the three types of mankind quite easy to
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2004
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      Hi Cari
      Having reviewed the link you gave me I can see how my answer looked
      confused.
      I find the concept of the three types of mankind quite easy to
      comprehend. But before I explain my thoughts on the matter I want to
      make it clear that I'm no expert, and that the following are purely
      my understanding of the data to hand.

      Firstly, the parameters I work within for considering the concept of
      human 'salvation' are, for The Cosmos, Deity, Salvation and Human
      Being are all broadly based on the definitions given in "A BRIEF
      SUMMARY OF GNOSTICISM www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm.. Also being a
      Quaker my primary belief is 'that there is that of God in everyone'.
      By this I'm not refering to the soul but an actual element of God's
      being in the form of light burning inside us. This fits well with
      the GOSPEL OF TRUTH which describes all humanity as being elements
      of God, who should be yearning to return to God.

      However, anguish has brought about forgetfulness and obliviousness to
      God's existance, which was remedied by the coming of Christ.
      The term Hylic refers to those who are still oblivious to the
      existance of God. Without the knowledge of God the hylic does not
      know that there is a choice (election) to be made and by default
      cannot be saved. The term Psychic in this context, refers to those
      who how have 'knowledge' of God and who are aware that there are
      choices to be made. The psychic is able to test and increase their
      knowledge of God and to make the choice to work towards pneuma, and
      rejoinging with God. In this sense then the psychic stage is vital,
      as it is when freedom of choice comes into play, weather to go on or
      to stay where they are. The psychics who do not work towards pneuma
      but who are still saved are those in whom the light of God burns
      bright.

      Now days working towards pneuma is often known as walking or working
      in the light, or the path of Love, Light and Truth,and many choose to
      work towards it.
      I hope this helps
      Caz
    • lady_caritas
      ... to ... of ... everyone . ... to ... vital, ... or ... pneuma ... working ... to ... Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint. Many
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 4, 2004
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "naturesgipsy" <camarwick@x>
        wrote:
        > Hi Cari
        > Having reviewed the link you gave me I can see how my answer looked
        > confused.
        > I find the concept of the three types of mankind quite easy to
        > comprehend. But before I explain my thoughts on the matter I want
        to
        > make it clear that I'm no expert, and that the following are purely
        > my understanding of the data to hand.
        >
        > Firstly, the parameters I work within for considering the concept
        of
        > human 'salvation' are, for The Cosmos, Deity, Salvation and Human
        > Being are all broadly based on the definitions given in "A BRIEF
        > SUMMARY OF GNOSTICISM www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm.. Also being a
        > Quaker my primary belief is 'that there is that of God in
        everyone'.
        > By this I'm not refering to the soul but an actual element of God's
        > being in the form of light burning inside us. This fits well with
        > the GOSPEL OF TRUTH which describes all humanity as being elements
        > of God, who should be yearning to return to God.
        >
        > However, anguish has brought about forgetfulness and obliviousness
        to
        > God's existance, which was remedied by the coming of Christ.
        > The term Hylic refers to those who are still oblivious to the
        > existance of God. Without the knowledge of God the hylic does not
        > know that there is a choice (election) to be made and by default
        > cannot be saved. The term Psychic in this context, refers to those
        > who how have 'knowledge' of God and who are aware that there are
        > choices to be made. The psychic is able to test and increase their
        > knowledge of God and to make the choice to work towards pneuma, and
        > rejoinging with God. In this sense then the psychic stage is
        vital,
        > as it is when freedom of choice comes into play, weather to go on
        or
        > to stay where they are. The psychics who do not work towards
        pneuma
        > but who are still saved are those in whom the light of God burns
        > bright.
        >
        > Now days working towards pneuma is often known as walking or
        working
        > in the light, or the path of Love, Light and Truth,and many choose
        to
        > work towards it.
        > I hope this helps
        > Caz


        Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint.
        Many might find some similarities to Gnostics in that "there is that
        of God in everyone." There are some important differences, too, that
        I see. Probably the concept of God seems to be significant to me.
        The Gnostic "god" classically is beyond "godbeing," beyond what we
        perceive as "existence," and actually is an infinite and ineffable
        prime source.

        I found the following link interesting. It describes various streams
        of theology found in Quakerism. How would you describe a modern
        sense of God in Quakerism in comparison to the ineffable, infinite
        prime source in Gnosticism?

        http://www.crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/QuakerBeliefs.htm


        Cari
      • Mike Leavitt
        Hello lady_caritas ... This might depend on the background of the Quaker. Fox admired Jacob Boehme, and the continental quakers actually look to him as their
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 4, 2004
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          Hello lady_caritas

          On 04-Feb-04, you wrote:
          > Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint.
          > Many might find some similarities to Gnostics in that "there is that
          > of God in everyone." There are some important differences, too, that
          > I see. Probably the concept of God seems to be significant to me.
          > The Gnostic "god" classically is beyond "godbeing," beyond what we
          > perceive as "existence," and actually is an infinite and ineffable
          > prime source.
          >
          > I found the following link interesting. It describes various streams
          > of theology found in Quakerism. How would you describe a modern
          > sense of God in Quakerism in comparison to the ineffable, infinite
          > prime source in Gnosticism?

          This might depend on the background of the Quaker. Fox admired Jacob
          Boehme, and the continental quakers actually look to him as their
          founder. My grandmother came from a continental quaker background,
          and told me when I got older to read him, if I wanted to understand
          the deeper side of life. Boehme talks about the evil in God, and
          darned if this doesn't sound Gnostic in tone. Of course he is still
          one of my heros, but I can't read to much of him at one sitting, as I
          just float off into....well sometimes the abyss, and sometimes bliss.

          Regards
          --
          Mike Leavitt ac998@...
        • lady_caritas
          ... that ... that ... streams ... Jacob ... I ... bliss. ... as a reflection of God,... that would undoubtedly suggest abyss/bliss conflict. He influenced
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 5, 2004
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            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
            > Hello lady_caritas
            >
            > On 04-Feb-04, you wrote:
            > > Caz, thank you, this is all interesting from a Quaker viewpoint.
            > > Many might find some similarities to Gnostics in that "there is
            that
            > > of God in everyone." There are some important differences, too,
            that
            > > I see. Probably the concept of God seems to be significant to me.
            > > The Gnostic "god" classically is beyond "godbeing," beyond what we
            > > perceive as "existence," and actually is an infinite and ineffable
            > > prime source.
            > >
            > > I found the following link interesting. It describes various
            streams
            > > of theology found in Quakerism. How would you describe a modern
            > > sense of God in Quakerism in comparison to the ineffable, infinite
            > > prime source in Gnosticism?
            >
            > This might depend on the background of the Quaker. Fox admired
            Jacob
            > Boehme, and the continental quakers actually look to him as their
            > founder. My grandmother came from a continental quaker background,
            > and told me when I got older to read him, if I wanted to understand
            > the deeper side of life. Boehme talks about the evil in God, and
            > darned if this doesn't sound Gnostic in tone. Of course he is still
            > one of my heros, but I can't read to much of him at one sitting, as
            I
            > just float off into....well sometimes the abyss, and sometimes
            bliss.
            >
            > Regards
            > --
            > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


            :-) No doubt, Mike. Considering that Jakob Boehme viewed creation
            as a reflection of God,... that would undoubtedly suggest abyss/bliss
            conflict. He influenced other theologians and writers like William
            Blake and John Wesley. I admire some of these early vanguards in
            modern Christianity who pushed a few limits. Those more "deviating"
            Protestants like Boehme and Wesley even tweaked the theology of other
            Protestants of their day. Boehme, who emphasized inner spiritual
            life, was highly regarded by John Wesley, who required his preachers
            to study Boehme's writings. Immersed in Christian culture, they
            still didn't break loose from the tethers of sin/atonement theology
            though.

            Nonetheless, I suppose this same protesting spirit of mine growing up
            found a spark in some of their ideas. I remember learning about the
            Wesleyan "quadrilateral," four influences Wesley emphasized in
            formulating Christian views. These were: Scripture, Tradition,
            Reason, and Experience. Now, of course, Wesley used this system of
            checks and balances within the context of believing the Bible was
            authoritative.

            I continued the renegade tradition, did a bit of tweaking myself and
            applied reason and experience to explore traditions and scriptures
            outside the orthodox Christian fold, thereby eventually finding a
            more suitable, nonrestrictive milieu for my continuing experiences.
            Interesting the paths we travel...


            Cari
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