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Re: Valentinian anthropology

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  • K.M.Hunter
    ... the ... in ... has ... dilutes ... factors? ... whether ... to ... to ... Hi Cari, upon thinking this more thoroughly, perhaps all these natures are
    Message 1 of 78 , Feb 1, 2004
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      > Hello eyeambetty
      > On 31-Jan-04, you wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > betty wrote:
      > >> > i have a hard time reconciling the rigidity of the Valentinian
      > >> > system, and the necessity for the psychic category. you have
      > >> > hylic at one end, and the pneumatic at the other, two natures
      > >> > opposition. then in the middle is the psychic, who basically
      > >> > either hylic tendencies or pneumatic tendencies? sort of
      > >> the
      > >>> whole idea of chosen/elect. and what are the determining
      > >>> for me the three natures are more symbolic of potentials than
      > >>> judgement about ones eternal fate.
      > >>>
      > >
      > >
      > >> Cari wrote:
      > >> Betty, do you feel that we all have all these potentials,
      > > or
      > >> not realized, or rather that some people are limited by nature
      > > the
      > >> hylic or psychic possibilities?
      > >>
      > >> And then, do you view these various natures in any way related
      > > an
      > >> eternal or infinite upshot?
      > >>

      Hi Cari,
      upon thinking this more thoroughly, perhaps all these natures are
      potentials within us, but one nature eventually predominates. for if
      Indeed we all have a spark/shard of the divine, does that not imply
      potential? then i keep coming back to, how is it that some transcend
      the lower levels? and why do some stay bound to those natures? for
      myself, i can say that i have lingered in the lower levels in my
      life. fortunately, i never got comfortable, but not without misery
      and suffering. in hindsight, experientially, that was very necessary
      in shaping the awareness i have now. maybe what is meant by "chosen"
      is the grace to be in the midst of the lower natures, internally and
      externally but not to succumb, but to recognize and observe. how
      would one know light without the contrast of darkness?


      Hi Betty,

      Indeed it is interesting to consider, how would one know light
      without darkness? I do think that there are entities in creation that
      do partake of only one of these. That is, beings that are totally at
      one with the 'concept' of love, who simply do not know of darkness,
      and also, beings of such malevalence that are so completely ignorant
      of goodness. It is possible for some entities to know only one
      quality, without the other, I think. We humans are in fact in a most
      interesting state of being in that we can contemplate both, from
      a 'stand-off' position and choose, through our actions, whether to
      manifest as beings of light or darkness. This is one of our essential
      characteristics, I think.

    • Gerry
      ... from ... amount ... out ... combat ... order ... pain ... revising ... unwittingly ... have ... And a perfectly topical testimonial it was, Betty. :-) I
      Message 78 of 78 , Feb 25, 2004
        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "eyeambetty" <eyeambetty@y...>
        > Hello Gerry,
        > previous to any spiritual context, i thought my inclination towards
        > introspection, and preference for solitude were products of my
        > upbringing. i've always felt alienated from others, painfully so
        > my family, i turned inward and developed a relationship with myself
        > early on. i don't think anyone escapes internalizing a certain
        > of the "darkness", meaning those raging, critical voices that
        > manifest out of false concepts, that have been shaped by external
        > influences during the development of our consciousness. it seems
        > of necessity, that i began to question and reflect in order to
        > those insidious voices that prodded at me to do this or that in
        > to be good, worthy, lovable and on and on... all i found was
        > emptiness in those pursuits, but the experiences were valuable
        > lessons because of the awareness i had. in my twenties, i began a
        > process of going thru all the garbage, finding the sources of my
        > and suffering, alongside new experiences, really distinguishing
        > between my true self and my false self. studying fine art, and
        > becoming an artist is what gave me a model for expanding and
        > my concepts and a voice/tool with which to express/communicate my
        > perceptions.
        > so now in my thirties, having created a space inside, and
        > prepared myself to recieve a series of transformational experiences
        > that eventually lead me to find Gnosticism, i can't help but think
        > that i was always headed in this direction. however, if you would
        > have told me 2 or 3 years ago this is where i would be, i would
        > surely laughed.
        > sorry, i didn't mean to write a testimonial...
        > sincerely,betty.

        And a perfectly topical testimonial it was, Betty. :-)

        I very much relate to much of your experience, although for me, I
        don't think the introspection and preference for solitude were as
        much products of my upbringing as simply genetic. Two other members
        of my immediate family are the same way, and I see numerous examples
        in the extended family as well.

        Your concluding remarks, also, I find have an especially familiar
        ring. In many ways, I can look back over the course of my life and
        see how differently my views have changed, but at the same time, even
        though I would have had no idea what Gnosticism was all about way
        back then, I feel as though there was always something "different" in
        the way I saw things, and that I was always being drawn in this
        direction. Odd, since my somewhat conventional upbringing was never
        so steeped in the mainstream as to ever make me really comfortable
        with orthodox beliefs, and yet, those beliefs that I *did* have
        weren't exactly like what we're discussing here today, either——sort
        of like realizing that deep within there must have always existed a
        gemstone in the rough. Chipping away at the crust around it takes us
        back to Mike's comment about the "refined perception."

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