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Re: [Gnosticism2] Jesus, Mary, & Da Vinci.....

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  • Ginosko
    MM David Something else about Da vincii you might find interesting is that there arer those who now claim him to be the creator of the Turin shroud thru use of
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 5, 2003
      MM David

      Something else about Da'vincii you might find interesting is that there arer
      those who now claim him to be the creator of the Turin shroud thru use of
      his own "camera obscura". They have replicated the process sucessfully to my
      understanding. The very chemicals required were known to Arabic scientists
      going back to the 10th cent (silver nitrate being the chief one) to which he
      himself had access to their docs.

      MP
      Penn

      --
      "Toleration isn't much. But it is the first step towards curiosity,
      interest, study, understanding, appreciating and finally valuing diversity.
      If we can get everyone on the first step of tolerance, at least we won't be
      killing each other."

      Anon


      > Hi all. I'm new here and excited about being a new member of this
      > group. My main interests lie in the Gnostic Gospels, many seem to
      > dismiss them at apparent fact (mainly Catholics, i.e., the Vatican).
      > I'm Catholic myself actually, and find them (the gospels) very
      > enlightening and educational. I currently have the Gosepl of Thomas
      > and looking to get the Gospel of Mary Magdalene this week, along
      > with the Da Vinci Code. My question is, what are everyone's thoughts
      > on the tv special that was on last night, entitled "Jesus, Mary, &
      > Da Vinci"? It was on Primetime, the ABC channel at 8pm. I didn't
      > know very much about the Da Vinci Code, but I knew it was a book and
      > recently published. I enjoyed watching the program, practically made
      > my night. To anyone who watched it, do you know if or where I can
      > get a copy of that special, whether it be on VHS at the ABC website
      > or somewhere else? I look forward to talking with you all over time.
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      > gnosticism2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      >
    • incognito_lightbringer
      David, get a copy of The Nag Hammadi Library edited by James Robinson and The Gnostic Scripture by Bentley Layton. Both are in paperback and normally found in
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 6, 2003
        David, get a copy of The Nag Hammadi Library edited by James Robinson
        and The Gnostic Scripture by Bentley Layton. Both are in paperback
        and normally found in most bookstores. The NH Library was mentioned
        in both Brown's book and in the ABC special.
        http://www.gnosis.org had not only a good booklist but also has an
        online library that contains the entire Nag Hammadi Library and many
        other texts.

        Now, as to Brown's book itself. I reviewed this on this board back in
        July and I HATED it. It's fiction and largely based on Holy Blood
        Holy Grail which itself is crackpot. This is not a good place to
        start if you wish to learn about gnosticism and Mary Magdelene. If
        you want to read it for entertainment, that's fine. Just be aware
        that it's sensationalism with little to back it up. The Davinci Code
        to religious scholarship is what tabloids are to journalism. You
        know, those things they sell at the supermarket checkout that have
        titles like "my mother married an alien".

        The ABC special attempted to be objective. It still wasn't entirely
        satisfactory. Here's an example. A lot of discussion went into
        whether Mary Magdelene was a prostitute or not. It was interesting as
        a historical analysis but no one seemed to get the point that her
        portrayal in gnosticism and early Christianity as a "whore" was
        metaphorical. Examples: Thunder Perfect Mind "I am the honored one
        and the scorned one. I am the whore and the holy one." or Gospel of
        Thomas "Jesus said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be
        called the child of a whore"" or The Second Treatise of the Great
        Seth "For those who were in the world had been prepared by the will
        of our sister Sophia - she who is a whore - because of the innocence
        which has not been uttered." In some cases the feminine and the whore
        is also a metaphor for the soul: The Exegesis on the Soul "As long as
        she was alone with the father, she was virgin and in form
        androgynous. But when she fell down into a body and came to this
        life, then she fell into the hands of many robbers. And the wanton
        creatures passed her from one to another and [...defiled] her.Some
        made use of her by force, while others did so by seducing her with a
        gift. In short, they defiled her, and she [...lost] her virginity.
        And in her body she prostituted herself and gave herself to one and
        all, considering each one she was about to embrace to be her husband"

        Mary Magdelene is a symbol for the fallen Sophia. She's the one the
        descending Christ comes to save.
        Instead, it was assumed the motivation was to belittle her because of
        the misogyny of a patriarchal system. Which I'm not saying wasn't a
        motivation, but there's another side to this. The ABC special
        interviewed several religious experts including Pagels and no one
        brought up the alternative explanation.




        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "David" <christianofzion@y...>
        wrote:
        > Hi all. I'm new here and excited about being a new member of this
        > group. My main interests lie in the Gnostic Gospels, many seem to
        > dismiss them at apparent fact (mainly Catholics, i.e., the
        Vatican).
        > I'm Catholic myself actually, and find them (the gospels) very
        > enlightening and educational. I currently have the Gosepl of Thomas
        > and looking to get the Gospel of Mary Magdalene this week, along
        > with the Da Vinci Code. My question is, what are everyone's
        thoughts
        > on the tv special that was on last night, entitled "Jesus, Mary, &
        > Da Vinci"? It was on Primetime, the ABC channel at 8pm. I didn't
        > know very much about the Da Vinci Code, but I knew it was a book
        and
        > recently published. I enjoyed watching the program, practically
        made
        > my night. To anyone who watched it, do you know if or where I can
        > get a copy of that special, whether it be on VHS at the ABC website
        > or somewhere else? I look forward to talking with you all over time.
      • David
        Incog, as much as I enjoyed the ABC special, it did seem to only cover the subject of Mary s being or not being a prostitute, so you re indeed right. That one
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 6, 2003
          Incog, as much as I enjoyed the ABC special, it did seem to only
          cover the subject of Mary's being or not being a prostitute, so
          you're indeed right. That one issue out-weighed the others of her
          possibly being the one to the right of Christ in "The Last Supper";
          being married to Christ, or not; as well as the Prieure de Sion and
          the possible descendents of Christ and Mary Magdalene. I found it to
          be very informing despite it only covering one particular issue.
          After having thought about everything that was covered and reading a
          few things on the Da Vinci Code and some of the historical subjects
          included with the Da Vinci Code at ABC.com, I'd have to say that the
          issue of Christ and Mary Magdalene is quite probable. I mean, none of
          us were there in his time
          and there are a few errors in the bible as it stands, i.e., the
          conflicting genealogies of Christ in the NT and things coulda been
          kept out of the Gospels, like Christ's personal life, because all we
          read about is his ministry and having twelve disciple, I'd figure at
          least one of them would know his personal life. Anyway, all I'm sayin
          is that the fact he was or wasn't married coulda been included, so
          we'd know more about him, but that kind of thing wasn't written. And
          the person who is supposed to be John in "The Last Supper" does look
          mighty feminine, and Jesus and Mary were rather close, as is
          believed, so it coulda been her. I also have to say that the painting
          is just a painting, not a snap-shot, the figures were painted in a
          way that showed Da Vinci's skill in painting people. People talk like
          it was a picture taken at the time of the Last Supper, like that's
          what they looked like and basing opinions about who is who and
          possibly why everyone close to Jesus wasn't there with him at the
          Last Supper and included in the story of the Last Supper in the NT.
          Not to discredit Da Vinci with his painting, just giving people
          something to think about regarding the painting. Think that's all I
          have to say at the moment. :-)

          David
        • Wayne
          ... wrote: a historical analysis but no one seemed to get the point that her ... be ... innocence ... whore ... as ... a ... husband ... of
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 6, 2003
            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, incognito_lightbringer
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            a historical analysis but no one seemed to get the point that her
            > portrayal in gnosticism and early Christianity as a "whore" was
            > metaphorical. Examples: Thunder Perfect Mind "I am the honored one
            > and the scorned one. I am the whore and the holy one." or Gospel of
            > Thomas "Jesus said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will
            be
            > called the child of a whore"" or The Second Treatise of the Great
            > Seth "For those who were in the world had been prepared by the will
            > of our sister Sophia - she who is a whore - because of the
            innocence
            > which has not been uttered." In some cases the feminine and the
            whore
            > is also a metaphor for the soul: The Exegesis on the Soul "As long
            as
            > she was alone with the father, she was virgin and in form
            > androgynous. But when she fell down into a body and came to this
            > life, then she fell into the hands of many robbers. And the wanton
            > creatures passed her from one to another and [...defiled] her.Some
            > made use of her by force, while others did so by seducing her with
            a
            > gift. In short, they defiled her, and she [...lost] her virginity.
            > And in her body she prostituted herself and gave herself to one and
            > all, considering each one she was about to embrace to be her
            husband"
            >
            > Mary Magdelene is a symbol for the fallen Sophia. She's the one the
            > descending Christ comes to save.
            > Instead, it was assumed the motivation was to belittle her because
            of
            > the misogyny of a patriarchal system. Which I'm not saying wasn't a
            > motivation, but there's another side to this. The ABC special
            > interviewed several religious experts including Pagels and no one
            > brought up the alternative explanation.



            The only True explanation.
          • incognito_lightbringer
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 12, 2003
              <<I'd have to say that the
              issue of Christ and Mary Magdalene is quite probable. >>

              David, who cares?
              The problem I have with this is that gnosticism is about freeing the
              spirit from the material, and here are a bunch of bozos concerned in
              what direction the sperm went.
              For what reasons? Power? Prestige? Are they hoping they can control a
              second coming?
              It's ridiculous.

              <<the conflicting genealogies of Christ in the NT>>
              'Cause the people writing it got their facts mixed up.
              Or else they wrote it to "prove" he was the foretold Jewish messiah.
              People nowadays have problems tracing their family history even a few
              generations back.

              <<Anyway, all I'm sayin
              is that the fact he was or wasn't married coulda been included, so
              we'd know more about him,>>

              I have this wacky theory that he didn't go through a wedding
              ceremony, simply because Mary, as a symbol of the fallen Sophia, is
              *already* his wife. But that's just me ;)

              <<And
              the person who is supposed to be John in "The Last Supper" does look
              mighty feminine>>

              Not only that, but the Mona Lisa is claimed to be, by some, Leonardo
              himself in drag. As a symbol of his divine feminine half. They've
              done computer models to try and back this theory up. Leonardo, on his
              death bed, had two paintings by him. One of John the Baptist, hint
              hint, and the other was the Mona Lisa. Of course, John the Baptist is
              painted looking remarkably like a lecherous Dionysus, so who knows
              how Leonardo interpreted gnosticism?
              Leonardo also painted Jesus standing over a table with three pieces
              of bread on it, no wine. Some claim it looks remarkably like a shell
              game (you know, that street hustle dating back to ancient Egypt?). A
              commentary on orthodox interpretation of that day perhaps?

              <<I also have to say that the painting
              is just a painting, not a snap-shot, >>

              Well, I like my personal copy of the icon of the Black Madonna
              currently hanging in Czestochowa Poland. If there's a second coming,
              or a time machine, I'm hoping he'll turn out to be a black dude just
              to shock all the bigots. :)


              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "David" <christianofzion@y...>
              wrote:
              > Incog, as much as I enjoyed the ABC special, it did seem to only
              > cover the subject of Mary's being or not being a prostitute, so
              > you're indeed right. That one issue out-weighed the others of her
              > possibly being the one to the right of Christ in "The Last Supper";
              > being married to Christ, or not; as well as the Prieure de Sion and
              > the possible descendents of Christ and Mary Magdalene. I found it
              to
              > be very informing despite it only covering one particular issue.
              > After having thought about everything that was covered and reading
              a
              > few things on the Da Vinci Code and some of the historical subjects
              > included with the Da Vinci Code at ABC.com, I'd have to say that
              the
              > issue of Christ and Mary Magdalene is quite probable. I mean, none
              of
              > us were there in his time
              > and there are a few errors in the bible as it stands, i.e., the
              > conflicting genealogies of Christ in the NT and things coulda been
              > kept out of the Gospels, like Christ's personal life, because all
              we
              > read about is his ministry and having twelve disciple, I'd figure
              at
              > least one of them would know his personal life. Anyway, all I'm
              sayin
              > is that the fact he was or wasn't married coulda been included, so
              > we'd know more about him, but that kind of thing wasn't written.
              And
              > the person who is supposed to be John in "The Last Supper" does
              look
              > mighty feminine, and Jesus and Mary were rather close, as is
              > believed, so it coulda been her. I also have to say that the
              painting
              > is just a painting, not a snap-shot, the figures were painted in a
              > way that showed Da Vinci's skill in painting people. People talk
              like
              > it was a picture taken at the time of the Last Supper, like that's
              > what they looked like and basing opinions about who is who and
              > possibly why everyone close to Jesus wasn't there with him at the
              > Last Supper and included in the story of the Last Supper in the NT.
              > Not to discredit Da Vinci with his painting, just giving people
              > something to think about regarding the painting. Think that's all I
              > have to say at the moment. :-)
              >
              > David
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