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Luker, delurked 4 Cologne Codex question

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  • lightquadrille
    I could use some help. What to read for a good look at the Cologne Mani Codex???? What are similiar Codices that relate to Creation in clear concepts? And do
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 4, 2003
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      I could use some help.

      What to read for a good look at the Cologne Mani Codex????

      What are similiar Codices that relate to Creation in clear concepts?


      And do most Gnostic recognize that Buffy, of Buffy the Vampire slayer
      was written as Mary Magdalene, and was often portrayed as Gnostic?


      thanks for your replies ahead of time
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello lightquadrille ... For a good intro, you couldn t do better than to find )OP for years though) or find on line, a copy of Duncan Greenlees THE GOSPEL OF
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 4, 2003
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        Hello lightquadrille

        On 04-Oct-03, you wrote:

        > I could use some help.
        >
        > What to read for a good look at the Cologne Mani Codex????
        >
        > What are similiar Codices that relate to Creation in clear concepts?

        For a good intro, you couldn't do better than to find )OP for years
        though) or find on line, a copy of Duncan Greenlees' THE GOSPEL OF
        THE PROPHET MANI.

        > And do most Gnostic recognize that Buffy, of Buffy the Vampire
        > slayer was written as Mary Magdalene, and was often portrayed as
        > Gnostic?

        That's a stretch, but you may have a point. I didn't like the
        program, so I only watched it once. I saw more influence of the old
        Bella Lagosi Dracula movies than anything else, though even there
        there was some occult, as opposed to specifically Gnostic knowledge
        applied.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • Magusadeptus
        Hello Mike Leavitt, ... I agree that there isn t much Gnosticism, but there is alot of good old fashioned occultism. Can t say I agree with the Bella Lagosi
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 4, 2003
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          Hello Mike Leavitt,

          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:


          >
          > That's a stretch, but you may have a point. I didn't like the
          > program, so I only watched it once. I saw more influence of the old
          > Bella Lagosi Dracula movies than anything else, though even there
          > there was some occult, as opposed to specifically Gnostic knowledge
          > applied.
          >
          > Hey, I like the Buffy series. I have seen every episode, Angel too.
          I agree that there isn't much Gnosticism, but there is alot of good
          old fashioned occultism. Can't say I agree with the Bella Lagosi
          analogy, though.
          > --

          Sincerely,
          Magusadeptus
        • Mike Leavitt
          Hello Magusadeptus ... That was nothing factual, just how it struck me. I remember in one of the old Dracula movies this old sage telling Dracula or one of
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 4, 2003
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            Hello Magusadeptus

            On 04-Oct-03, you wrote:

            > Hello Mike Leavitt,
            >
            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >>
            >> That's a stretch, but you may have a point. I didn't like the
            >> program, so I only watched it once. I saw more influence of the old
            >> Bella Lagosi Dracula movies than anything else, though even there
            >> there was some occult, as opposed to specifically Gnostic knowledge
            >> applied.
            >>
            >> Hey, I like the Buffy series. I have seen every episode, Angel too.
            > I agree that there isn't much Gnosticism, but there is alot of good
            > old fashioned occultism. Can't say I agree with the Bella Lagosi
            > analogy, though.
            >> --
            >
            > Sincerely,
            > Magusadeptus

            That was nothing factual, just how it struck me. I remember in one of
            the old Dracula movies this old sage telling Dracula or one of the
            other characters how the universe was just different levels of
            vibration accounting for physical and spiritual and psychic planes.
            He sounded like Annie Besant or Rudolph Steiner.

            Regards
            --
            Mike Leavitt ac998@...
          • Magusadeptus
            Hello Mike Leavitt, ... one of ... and hells, so perhaps your analogy wasn t too far off after all. Of course, the special effects for the vampires and demons
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 5, 2003
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              Hello Mike Leavitt,


              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
              >


              >
              > [That was nothing factual, just how it struck me. I remember in
              one of
              > the old Dracula movies this old sage telling Dracula or one of the
              > other characters how the universe was just different levels of
              > vibration accounting for physical and spiritual and psychic planes.
              > He sounded like Annie Besant or Rudolph Steiner.]
              >
              > Well the Buffy universe does seem to comprise of multiple heavens
              and hells, so perhaps your analogy wasn't too far off after all. Of
              course, the special effects for the vampires and demons in Buffy are
              far superior to the old Bella Lagosi versions.

              Sincerely,
              Magusadeptus
            • Motleyjack
              HI: Remember Saint Paul s Boast of the man who was taken up into the third Heaven ( whether in his body, or out, I know not ). Magusadeptus
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 5, 2003
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                HI:
                 
                   Remember Saint Paul's "Boast" of the man who was taken up into the third Heaven ("whether in his body, or out, I know not").
                 
                 

                 
                Magusadeptus <nwheeler@...>


                Keep the faith,
                Stay the course,
                Vaya con Dios,
                Pacem et Bonham.



                Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
              • Magusadeptus
                Hello Motleyjack, ... the third Heaven ( whether in his body, or out, I know not ). ... Yes, this is because the belief of at least 7 levels of heaven and the
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 6, 2003
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                  Hello Motleyjack,

                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Motleyjack <motleyjack@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > HI:
                  >
                  > Remember Saint Paul's "Boast" of the man who was taken up into
                  the third Heaven ("whether in his body, or out, I know not").
                  >

                  Yes, this is because the belief of at least 7 levels of heaven and
                  the underworld were present in the days of Paul.
                  The seven levels of heaven and the underworld are found in ancient
                  Judeo-Christian lore and was accepted belief, well into the Middle
                  Ages and was taught by 14th century theologians.
                  The 7 earths or underworlds of Jewish lore being;
                  1. Eres, a dull and cheerless land
                  2. Adama, a land of melancholia
                  3. Harrabha, a twilight world of shadows and jungle.
                  4. Siyya, a dry land with fair inhabitants and cities
                  5. Yabbasha, another dry land inhabited by a tiny race of beings.
                  6. Arqa, the inhabitants of this world are able to visit all
                  other worlds, this land has the Hell in it, with its seven levels,
                  Sheol,
                  Perdition, The Gates of Death, The Gates of Shadow and Death,
                  Silence,
                  The Bilge and The Lowest Pit.
                  7. Tebbel, a world similar to earth but peopled by monstrous
                  beings.
                  In ancient Greek mythology Hades has at least six levels separated
                  by
                  rivers.
                  Writings pertaining to the seven levels of heaven are found in the
                  Dead Sea
                  Scrolls, such as 1 Enoch, and early Christian works like Ascension
                  of
                  Isaiah, Heckahalot literature, Hermetic and Neoplatonic works.
                  The seven heavens in ancient lore are:
                  1. Shamayim
                  2. Raquia
                  3. Sagun or Shehaqim
                  4. Zehul or Machanon
                  5. Machon or Ma'on
                  6. Zebul or Makhon
                  7. Araboth

                  Sincerely,
                  Magusadeptus
                • Michael Hoffman
                  ... Judeo-Christian lore and was accepted belief, well into the Middle Ages and was taught by 14th century theologians. In ancient Greek mythology, Hades has
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 6, 2003
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                    Adept Magus wrote:
                    >>The seven levels of heaven and the underworld are found in ancient
                    Judeo-Christian lore and was accepted belief, well into the Middle Ages and
                    was taught by 14th century theologians. In ancient Greek mythology, Hades has
                    at least six levels separated by rivers. The seven levels of heaven are found
                    in the Dead Sea Scrolls such as 1 Enoch, early Christian works such as
                    Ascension of Isaiah, Heckahalot literature, Hermetic works, and Neoplatonic
                    works.


                    The classic levels of astral ascension are summarized in terms of maturing
                    from freewill/separate-self delusion, to a peak experience of cosmic
                    determinism and imprisonment in spacetime unity, on to a kind of spiritual
                    transcendence of cosmic determinism resulting in "spiritual freedom", to gaze
                    upon the godhead.


                    10. The utterly hidden black-box benevolent controller of the deterministic
                    cosmos. Apophatic level, indirectly intuited or deduced or felt. Throne of
                    the Good god.

                    9. The divine transcendent realm. The initiate is pulled up and spiritually
                    born out from the deterministic cosmos.

                    8. The fixed stars; cosmic determinism. Peak experience of
                    no-free-will/no-separate-self.

                    5-7. The slow planets. Intermediate level mystic-experiencing. Glimpses of
                    frozen time and of unity.

                    2-4. The fast planets. Beginning of one's mystic-experiencing initiations.

                    1. Earth. Childish/animal delusion of freewill and motion; time passage taken
                    as simply real.


                    The Hermetic astrology of around 250 CE is similar to that of the Renaissance.
                    The New Chronology postulates that the years 600-900 didn't exist; that would
                    help explain this similarity, this apparent intact, wholesale leap of mystic
                    astrology across the supposed long divide from the Roman era to the
                    Renaissance era.

                    The astral ascent occurs in conjunction with eating manna -- the bread of
                    heaven -- or drinking from the krater of mind (krater means a bowl for 'mixed
                    wine').


                    -- Michael Hoffman
                    http://www.egodeath.com -- simple theory of the ego-death and rebirth
                    experience
                  • lightquadrille
                    Gee, I hope I am correct. Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy, the vampire slayer, had Buffy portray Mary Magdalene several times. In Gift, the last episode in
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 6, 2003
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                      Gee, I hope I am correct.

                      Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy, the vampire slayer, had Buffy portray
                      Mary Magdalene several times. In Gift, the last episode in season
                      five, buffy relates, as Mary Magdalene's missing text (souls) in the
                      Gospel of Mary, to Giles, what Dawn meant to her. The structure of
                      the dialog was lifted by JW as technique.

                      In season seven of Buffy, JW had Buffy, as Mary Magdalene, wash the
                      blood of Spike (a JC figure) in a basement during the ep Never Leave
                      ME.


                      But the keenest portrayal of Buffy as Gnostic came in the last eps
                      series: Empty Places. Buffy was representing Aion time concepts of
                      Menoan society as she stood in the street, while around her Greek
                      citizens of SD were bailing out. Buffy the vampire Slayer in the end
                      was a formal Greek Tragedy, using linear time and the change from
                      Aion to create Chaos. Buffy is seen as providing Punishment, as
                      linear time would have/formal definition of Greek tragedy, to those
                      around her that the Greek Playwrites of the time (sophecles (sp),
                      Aschelyus, and some others, understood in their own plots of social
                      commentary.


                      The Gnostic identity of Buffy comes with the Character Faith taking
                      Control of the disfunctional group around her, after Buffy, knowing
                      that evil lurked in the vineyards, again heroic, tried to bring them
                      together. Faith asked/accused Buffy if she could Follow/can follow.
                      Of course she could not. Sara Michelle Geller's acting/dialog showed
                      that she carried knowledge not available to the group. Buffy was
                      forced out by Faith and those that Buffy had led before; the ones she
                      was soon destine to lead; again the hero of Campell, and crossing the
                      thereshold.

                      This one episode is brilliant, and led me to several formal
                      definitions of Gnostic, just from decripting the overt dialog.
                    • Mike Leavitt
                      Hello Michael ... A more likely explanation is that the Renissance Astrologers studied Ptolomy and those of the classical era, and based their teachings on
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 6, 2003
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                        Hello Michael

                        On 06-Oct-03, you wrote:
                        > The Hermetic astrology of around 250 CE is similar to that of the
                        > Renaissance. The New Chronology postulates that the years 600-900
                        > didn't exist; that would help explain this similarity, this apparent
                        > intact, wholesale leap of mystic astrology across the supposed long
                        > divide from the Roman era to the Renaissance era.

                        A more likely explanation is that the Renissance Astrologers studied
                        Ptolomy and those of the classical era, and based their teachings on
                        them. Don't forget Occam's razor. The Arabs, for one culture, had
                        preserved those writings.

                        Regards
                        --
                        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                      • Michael Hoffman
                        ... Some theorists of revisionist chronology assert that the Arabs preserved the astrognosis writings for 300 years less than claimed by the established
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 6, 2003
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                          Michael wrote:
                          >> The Hermetic astrology of around 250 CE is similar to that of the
                          >> Renaissance. The New Chronology postulates that the years 600-900
                          >> didn't exist; that would help explain this similarity, this apparent
                          >> intact, wholesale leap of mystic astrology across the supposed long
                          >> divide from the Roman era to the Renaissance era.


                          Mike wrote:
                          >A more likely explanation is that the Renissance Astrologers studied
                          >Ptolomy and those of the classical era, and based their teachings on
                          >them. Don't forget Occam's razor. The Arabs, for one culture, had
                          >preserved those writings.


                          Some theorists of revisionist chronology assert that the Arabs preserved the
                          astrognosis writings for 300 years less than claimed by the established
                          chronology.

                          I am only beginning to study the New Chronology theory.
                          http://www.egodeath.com/newchronology.htm It's almost all in German at this
                          point -- I am just beginning to scope it out, looking for English webpages and
                          machine-translating the German webpages. I'm also just beginning to study the
                          history of mystic astrology. I know little about the history of Roman to Arab
                          to Renaissance history and transmission of texts. If I knew anything more, I
                          would write it, insofar as it's on-topic.

                          I'm learning Western Esotericism studies; I am currently making a $180
                          decision whether to order the remaining issues for my Gnosis magazine
                          collection before they are shredded for good.

                          I am extremely interested in the theory of paradigms. Paradigms are
                          everything; everything depends upon interpretive frameworks for organizing
                          data and asking questions. Nevertheless, I'm not a radical relativist; I
                          think good sense leads the way, even though there's no formally clear basis
                          for "good sense".

                          Occam's razor is paradigm-dependent. The orthodox Christian assessment is
                          that Occam's razor dictates concluding that literalist Christianity came
                          first, and then Gnostic Christianity came second. Radical scholarship makes
                          an assessment that Occam's razor dictates concluding that Gnostic Christianity
                          came first, and then literalist Christianity came second.

                          From the literalist Christianity paradigm, some three hypotheses are involved
                          in the orthodox Eusebian history, while some fifteen hypotheses are involved
                          in the Radical assertion of the priority of gnostic Christianity. From the
                          point of view of the Radical paradigm, one's model of history is far simpler
                          and more plausible and sober if one accepts the priority of gnostic
                          Christianity, with literalist Christianity as a later, deviant, degenerated
                          form driven by power-mongering hierarchy-builders.

                          Incommensurable paradigms result in argument about which paradigm has the
                          fewest hypotheses; in the end, it may amount to a beauty contest, an aesthetic
                          judgment call.


                          -- Michael Hoffman
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