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Re: Messalians

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  • Magusadeptus
    Hello Terje Bergersen, ... edited.. but ... Thanks, consider it posted. I m looking forward to your thoughts on the Messalians and the art of alchemy.
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 1, 2003
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      Hello Terje Bergersen,


      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Terje Bergersen" <terje@b...>
      wrote:
      > Hi Magus

      >
      >[ I would not mind, although I wish it was better organized and
      edited.. but
      > it does not matter, we process information as we would.
      > I am just niw trying to get together a reply with that
      > Messalian-Alchemists excerpt..]


      Thanks, consider it posted. I'm looking forward to your thoughts on
      the Messalians and the art of alchemy.

      Sincerely,
      Magusadeptus
    • Terje Bergersen
      ... With regards to the excerpt: Are the means by which Alchemy is designated a sacred art qualified and explained in the book? Is it established, with
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 2, 2003
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        Magusadeptus wrote:
        > Perhaps this will help clarify. Here is the source that prompted my
        > question about the Messalians:
        >
        > " The occultation of ancient alchemy's theoretical component can be
        > partially explained by religious considerations. Alchemy, a sacred
        > art
        > in the Hellenistic East, employed the metal-tinting recipes as part of
        > a redemptive ritual. Thus it competed with the new redemptive god of
        > the Christians, who suppressed the alchemical texts. Despite
        > persecution
        > certain heretical Christian sects, particularly the Gnostics,
        > continued to
        > secretly practice the Sacred Art. It has recently been suggested that
        > the alchemical-technological recipes may have passed surreptitiously
        > into the West with Cathar missionaries. The Cathars, in turn, learned
        > the
        > recipes from the Messalians, a medieval Gnostic sect that is known to
        > have practiced the Sacred Art and to have preserved secret books from
        > antiquity. Other recipes may have come with migrating craftsmen who
        > had been in contact with one or another of these heretical sectsÂ…"
        > page 32, Science And The Secrets Of Nature, Books of Secrets in
        > Medieval
        > and Early Modern Culture, William Eamon, Princeton University Press.


        With regards to the excerpt:

        Are the means by which Alchemy is designated a "sacred art" qualified and
        explained in the book?
        Is it established, with textual (and I don`t mean a citation from another
        book of this kind.. ) evidence and groundwork,
        that Alchemy -as a sacred art- originates and is employed -to those ends-
        in Hellenistic antiquity?
        That question is quite interesting, if it is qualified,"proved" or proved
        probable, and given foundation - it is worth the chapter or the half -
        which is the usual contigent in books like these..

        Of course, Alchemy is a very specific topic to many readers of this list,
        while it is a general and tenuous one to many others...
        I get the impression that the simple definition used for "alchemy" here
        has to do with the doctrines concerning "refinement", which is to say -
        "perfection" - I have this quiet suspicion that very many, too many to
        list, in fact, of the religious and philosophical remnants of our past and
        passing civilizations (our culture is turning into static..beyond that
        threshold lays oblivion), traditions,movements,groups..religions - in some
        way employ intelligence,immagination,intuition and a collective and
        individual effort towards one or another kind of such "refinement".
        To demonstrate the idea behind such "refinement" (which incidentally is
        also just a barely workable metaphor) you could employ mental images,
        examples which is not the thing itself, or entirely representative as such
        - but which gives you an impression of what is at stake and if not the
        processes themselves, at least the fact of some kind of process being
        involved; one such would be the very primitive concern of what it takes to
        purify a metal - or distill something - or indeed, "produce gold". That`s
        everyday usage of the term "alchemy" - hard work and concentration to
        which is added a bit of genius, and a pinch of brimstone - produced
        brilliance, pure gold..

        The nature of the formula as claimed by the Messalian heretics (according
        to Theodoret among others) could remind one somewhat of the overblown and
        optimistic evaluations of certain
        philosophers,authors,artistes,socioanthropologists,psychologists and
        others.. concerning the effect of the "Psychedelic"; by "cleansing the
        doors of perception" - in the case of the messalians by way of "fire
        baptism" and ascetic and devotionary discipline - in the case of Huxley
        and other Psychedelic pioneers - by ingesting, "under the right set and
        setting", a substance - a true vision or appreciation of reality, not the
        collective and dull reality, but an expanded, "higher" reality - which to
        the Messalians included angels,spirits,gods and so forth .The "effect" of
        the discipline as cited by Theodoret almost suggest a shamanic direction..
        which isnt too uncommon among pietists - consider the trances and
        ecstasies of the early Quakers, the Shakers, the noncomformist communalist
        sects of the Taborians and their russian brethren the Dukhobors etc. all
        sharing a lifestyle and perspective which includes the ideal of
        "perfection" and the acquisition of the vision of heaven,angels etc.
        through ascetic discipline and contemplative prayer.

        All this is well and good, if it can be established that the doctrinal
        platform of for instance the Messalians or the Cathars - include an
        understanding of human divinity or consciousness of the divine,being
        increased by effort and technique; I`ll admit that we may very well
        combine two words -sacred- and -art-, but do we with those ingredients get
        Alchemy?

        I suspect the author of that book of really sincerely and perhaps even
        intensively studying what Titus Burkhardt had to say about Alchemy being
        an Sacred Art..but I also suspect,being a suspicious bastard.. that he
        runs off with it, reversing the relationships, so *any* "Sacred Art", as
        qualified by ourselves, becomes "Alchemy", and uses the two so much
        interchangeably. This is typical of so-called "popular occultists" and
        thats where I spot that assertion which includes or employs a "total
        unknown", which if partially "known" - like through the articles
        I cited in my last post, also is controversial.

        The cited authors casual accusation that Christianity, in general , of
        trying to obliterate a "science" or initiatory tradition, that really did
        not please me or impress me either ; considering that the Alchemical
        tradition were sustained in particularly two areas, one western and one
        eastern, and these were chiefly Christian and Islamic; The religious
        imagry/ideas that the author obliquely refers to in the excerpt -
        originates from these two, to which is added an almost necessary
        "Platonic" perspective on the relationship between a manifest,solid and
        muteable/manipulative/elastic constitution of matter/physicality - and a
        spiritual world of forms,"ideals",patterns and "powers" which
        inform,"sustains" and penetrates into the physical and sensual domains in
        which man, The Quintessence, finds himself immersed. This dependence of
        the Christian philosophers who employed themselves with or of Alchemy in
        one variety or another, upon Platonism,especially neo-platonism, is very
        much in evidence. From what we can gather it is highly probable that
        Thomas of Aquinas, a Docteur and Sainte of the Catholic Church, authored
        the Aurora Consurgens,
        which is a very curious document which, read by modern or probably
        contemporary eyes..However, if we inspect the Messalians and their
        Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox) counterparts
        in late antiquity, we find little evidence of that inspiration, nor
        dependence. We find the suggestion that matter is corrupt through sin, sin
        having brought about the presence of
        evil spirits within material containers and forms,in particular - human
        bodies; if these selfsame bodies are exorcised and purified, and kept in a
        state of "perfection", wherein
        the individual makes no bidding for his fate and desires nothing, being
        impassionate about anything but doing the will of God, they become vessels
        of light and of the Holy Spirit.
        This is quite comparable to the speculations and approach of the medieval
        Homines Intelligae, or the "Brethren and Sistren of the Free Spirit" -
        Their evaluation of the "base"
        stage of humanity, the state of being for the majority of humankind, and
        its foundation; sin - is similar to that of the Messalians, while it is
        quite different from the Cathars, because the latter, while divided
        between Traducianism (wherein the same psychological or "psychic"
        substance or persona is spread thin through the
        generations originating in Adam (and sometimes in Adam and Eve)) and the
        belief of the pre-existence of each individual soul as angels fallen or
        trapped into the condition
        of incarnation,human bodies - who employs the idea of a metaphysical
        cause: the fall of higher intelligences into Mutiny against God and the
        "First Creation" (which appears
        to me to be so dependant on Origenes Peri Archon (On First Principles)
        that they are practically "Origenists") but most dramatically: the flawed,
        rebellious, "wicked" creation
        of the physical universe, or at least the earth and its inhabitants
        physical forms. A "Biblical Demiurge" theme.

        With the Cathars we have an "ascension theme"; they seek liberation as the
        end of all ascetic and contemplative disciplines used on their path; the
        ritual of the Consolamentum are a formal seal
        which signify towards the exterior authorities (the "powers" or "archons")
        that they formally belong to the Church of God and endeavoured to give
        Caesar what is Caesar`s :
        their bodies, their birthright, their properties and so forth; as such,
        the body is not claimed from the possession of evil spirits, but in a very
        real sense consigned and given up to the world.
        With the Messalians we have chiefly a "perfection theme"; they seek a
        glorified deification of man as a physical creature, the role of the
        "elite" in a Manichaean and Cathar (here they are
        similar) setting is to "show the way", the role of the "elite" with the
        Messalians is kingship,domination and leadership - a theocracy - the body
        is claimed from the possession of evil
        spirits, purified, perfected and ..according to Epiphanius, allowed
        certain licenses which would theologically now befall the perfected soul,
        while in a state of imperfection, any pleasure
        would be considered the privilege of the devil, which of course had to be
        denied him. In addition, the perfected would expect to receive all gifts
        and abilities ascribed traditionally to such
        a condition and to the "gifts of the holy spirit".

        This difference of opinion upon the theme of Soma is quite significant,
        from the early 2nd century
        dissent and disagreement, even among those which historians treat as
        "Orthodox", have encrouched the question of the physicality or somatical
        nature of Jesus/Christ,
        the somatic or spiritual nature of Jesus resurrection and ascent (and
        death, as shown in the Docetic variant) as put against the expected
        physical or somatical "eternal abode/life"
        of the elect or the true christians, their possible resurrection, and
        "journey to heaven" - whether there is a temporal "rest" which some are
        consigned to, an eternal physical hell
        or an eternal physical paradise.. even if the anatomy of God the Father is
        a complete and actual physical and material analogue to the human, since
        the human is considered
        "the image of God". Of course, they would not use those struggling and
        failing terms; agreement over terminology took up quite a lot of the time
        as well, and even marching out
        as party or rebellious to one or another doctrinal Council, it doesnt
        appear that everyone got the same idea of what had been agreed upon.. The
        Messalians heresy would be
        declared as such, treated as such and very strongly argued against *after
        the disappearance of the heresy*, when the same ideas,practices and
        attitudes were discovered
        and treated in other movements...In the late middle ages. At that time -
        the more sophisticated and literate followers of such, *would* have an
        idea about Alchemy and other arts,
        and would adapt either their theology to its imagry,ideas and terminology
        - or vice versa. The "perfection theme" remains in a more socialized
        fringe than the "ascension theme"-
        the strongest "ascension theme" religion or movement, which is not
        violently fought and polemized against by the west - is actually
        non-Christian and non-western in origin and expression;
        It`s Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism. The "perfection theme" in various kinds,
        also including the somatic view of the Messalians - you can find all over,
        but not particularized or put
        into a dogmatic body as such; Christian Science, New Thought, various
        trends of occultism including the so-called New Age - and yes, here we
        *do* find it conglomerated
        and synthetized with a symbology adapted from Alchemy.




        Pax Pleromae


        --
        Terje Dahl Bergersen
        terje@...
        http://terje.bergersen.net/
      • Magusadeptus
        Hello Terje Bergensen, ... qualified and ... another ... ends- ... proved ... half - ... designated Books of Secrets in antiquity and medieval periods and as
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 4, 2003
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          Hello Terje Bergensen,


          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Terje Bergersen" <terje@b...>
          wrote:
          >


          >
          >
          > With regards to the excerpt:
          >
          >[ Are the means by which Alchemy is designated a "sacred art"
          qualified and
          > explained in the book?
          > Is it established, with textual (and I don`t mean a citation from
          another
          > book of this kind.. ) evidence and groundwork,
          > that Alchemy -as a sacred art- originates and is employed -to those
          ends-
          > in Hellenistic antiquity?
          > That question is quite interesting, if it is qualified,"proved" or
          proved
          > probable, and given foundation - it is worth the chapter or the
          half -
          > which is the usual contigent in books like these..]
          >
          > The primary focus of Eamon's book are the recipe and formula books
          designated
          Books of Secrets in antiquity and medieval periods and as such
          pertain to
          the practical side of alchemy as opposed to the philosophical side.
          I do not think that Eamon is wrong in referring to alchemy as a
          Sacred Art, as it is in accord with not only other scholarly books
          that I have read on the subject, but actual texts that are attributed
          to late antiquity.
          The literary tradition behind the recipe books dates back to
          Hellenistic times and has its roots in the alchemical tradition.
          Three of the earliest recipe books are Egyptian papyri known as the
          Leyden X, Stockholm papyrus and Papyrus Ebers.
          Three other alchemical manuscripts to which scholars attribute the
          originals to the Hellenistic period are the `The Precepts of Hermes
          Trismegistus', ` Zosimus, On Completion' and `Book of Comarius,
          Philosopher and High Priest Who Was Teaching Cleopatra the Divine,
          the Sacred Art of the Philosopher's Stone'. Sacred Art actually
          appears in the title of the latter, while Zosimus' work refers to
          alchemy as the Divine Art.





          [Of course, Alchemy is a very specific topic to many readers of this
          list,
          > while it is a general and tenuous one to many others...
          > I get the impression that the simple definition used for "alchemy"
          here
          > has to do with the doctrines concerning "refinement", which is to
          say -
          > "perfection" - I have this quiet suspicion that very many, too many
          to
          > list, in fact, of the religious and philosophical remnants of our
          past and
          > passing civilizations (our culture is turning into static..beyond
          that
          > threshold lays oblivion), traditions,movements,groups..religions -
          in some
          > way employ intelligence,immagination,intuition and a collective and
          > individual effort towards one or another kind of such "refinement".
          > To demonstrate the idea behind such "refinement" (which
          incidentally is
          > also just a barely workable metaphor) you could employ mental
          images,
          > examples which is not the thing itself, or entirely representative
          as such
          > - but which gives you an impression of what is at stake and if not
          the
          > processes themselves, at least the fact of some kind of process
          being
          > involved; one such would be the very primitive concern of what it
          takes to
          > purify a metal - or distill something - or indeed, "produce gold".
          That`s
          > everyday usage of the term "alchemy" - hard work and concentration
          to
          > which is added a bit of genius, and a pinch of brimstone - produced
          > brilliance, pure gold..
          >
          > The nature of the formula as claimed by the Messalian heretics
          (according
          > to Theodoret among others) could remind one somewhat of the
          overblown and
          > optimistic evaluations of certain
          > philosophers,authors,artistes,socioanthropologists,psychologists and
          > others.. concerning the effect of the "Psychedelic"; by "cleansing
          the
          > doors of perception" - in the case of the messalians by way of "fire
          > baptism" and ascetic and devotionary discipline - in the case of
          Huxley
          > and other Psychedelic pioneers - by ingesting, "under the right set
          and
          > setting", a substance - a true vision or appreciation of reality,
          not the
          > collective and dull reality, but an expanded, "higher" reality -
          which to
          > the Messalians included angels,spirits,gods and so
          forth .The "effect" of
          > the discipline as cited by Theodoret almost suggest a shamanic
          direction..
          > which isnt too uncommon among pietists - consider the trances and
          > ecstasies of the early Quakers, the Shakers, the noncomformist
          communalist
          > sects of the Taborians and their russian brethren the Dukhobors
          etc. all
          > sharing a lifestyle and perspective which includes the ideal of
          > "perfection" and the acquisition of the vision of heaven,angels etc.
          > through ascetic discipline and contemplative prayer.]
          >

          To my knowledge Psychedelics are not mentioned in Eamon's book.



          > [All this is well and good, if it can be established that the
          doctrinal
          > platform of for instance the Messalians or the Cathars - include an
          > understanding of human divinity or consciousness of the divine,being
          > increased by effort and technique; I`ll admit that we may very well
          > combine two words -sacred- and -art-, but do we with those
          ingredients get
          > Alchemy?
          >
          > I suspect the author of that book of really sincerely and perhaps
          even
          > intensively studying what Titus Burkhardt had to say about Alchemy
          being
          > an Sacred Art..but I also suspect,being a suspicious bastard.. that
          he
          > runs off with it, reversing the relationships, so *any* "Sacred
          Art", as
          > qualified by ourselves, becomes "Alchemy", and uses the two so much
          > interchangeably. This is typical of so-called "popular occultists"
          and
          > thats where I spot that assertion which includes or employs
          a "total
          > unknown", which if partially "known" - like through the articles
          > I cited in my last post, also is controversial.]

          Eamon also writes:
          "We are obviously concerned here with a cultural climate in which the
          distinction between gold making and gold faking was not as obvious as
          it is to us. As Joseph Needham observed, the distinction between
          aurification (counterfeiting gold and aurifaction
          (transmuting "ignoble" metals into gold) is not technological but
          cultural: it depends upon what you think you are doing. Indeed the
          alchemists real aim had little to do with either the making or
          counterfeiting of gold. His goal was a religious one: to project upon
          matter the mystical drama of the passion, death and resurrection of
          the god of the mystery cult. In the sudden appearance of alchemical
          texts at the beginning of the Christian era we witness the
          convergence of two esoteric traditions, one learned and the other
          popular, one representing the revealed wisdom of the East and the
          other by the craft tradition, the guardian of trade secretsÂ…" -page
          31, Science And The Secrets of Nature, William Eamon.

          >
          > [The cited authors casual accusation that Christianity, in
          general , of
          > trying to obliterate a "science" or initiatory tradition, that
          really did
          > not please me or impress me either ; considering that the Alchemical
          > tradition were sustained in particularly two areas, one western and
          one
          > eastern, and these were chiefly Christian and Islamic; The religious
          > imagry/ideas that the author obliquely refers to in the excerpt -
          > originates from these two, to which is added an almost necessary
          > "Platonic" perspective on the relationship between a manifest,solid
          and
          > muteable/manipulative/elastic constitution of matter/physicality -
          and a
          > spiritual world of forms,"ideals",patterns and "powers" which
          > inform,"sustains" and penetrates into the physical and sensual
          domains in
          > which man, The Quintessence, finds himself immersed. This
          dependence of
          > the Christian philosophers who employed themselves with or of
          Alchemy in
          > one variety or another, upon Platonism,especially neo-platonism, is
          very
          > much in evidence. From what we can gather it is highly probable that
          > Thomas of Aquinas, a Docteur and Sainte of the Catholic Church,
          authored
          > the Aurora Consurgens,
          > which is a very curious document which, read by modern or probably
          > contemporary eyes..]

          It is true that for a period the Church did not ban alchemy, but
          that is not to say that it supported it either. In 1317 Pope John
          XXII issued a Papul bull condemning the art. It is also true that
          various heretical sects were known to have practiced the art.
          For example, Nestorians and the Monophysites were aquainted with
          alchemical doctrines and carried these through Syria and Persia.
          "The immediate cause was the expulsion of the learned sect of the
          Nestorians from Constantinople in A.D. 431. They formed an active
          school of Greek learning at Edessa in the north of Syria. Thence they
          were expelled by the Greek Emporer in 489. They then moved to Nisibis
          in Mesopotamia and soon after A.D. 500 finally settled a Jundai-
          Shapur, the great Persian medical school, some distance north of
          Basra. The Nestorians long retained a knowledge of Greek and soon
          began to translate Greek works into Syriac. In the next century the
          Monophyisite Christians wer also expelled from Constantinople and
          migrated to Syria and Persia. Some, at least of the Greek works of
          alchemy were translated by them in Syriac." Page 68, The Alchemists,
          F. Sherwood Taylor
          I have read elsewhere that the Ophites practiced alchemy but the
          source eludes me at the moment. Nevertheless, Seligmann in his
          History Of Magic and the Occult, mentions that the serpent Ouroboros
          was worshipped by several sects of the Ophites. This symbol not only
          appears on gnostic gem amulets but is also a prominent symbol in
          alchemical texts. In Arcana Mundi, in the section on alchemical
          texts, Luck gives an Ouroboros symbol accompanied with the words "One
          is all, and by it all, and if one does not contain all, all is
          nothing." Page 367 Arcana Mundi , Magic and Occult in the Greek and
          Roman Worlds , Georg Luck.

          [However, if we inspect the Messalians and their
          > Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox) counterparts
          > in late antiquity, we find little evidence of that inspiration, nor
          > dependence. We find the suggestion that matter is corrupt through
          sin, sin
          > having brought about the presence of
          > evil spirits within material containers and forms,in particular -
          human
          > bodies; if these selfsame bodies are exorcised and purified, and
          kept in a
          > state of "perfection", wherein
          > the individual makes no bidding for his fate and desires nothing,
          being
          > impassionate about anything but doing the will of God, they become
          vessels
          > of light and of the Holy Spirit.
          > This is quite comparable to the speculations and approach of the
          medieval
          > Homines Intelligae, or the "Brethren and Sistren of the Free
          Spirit" -
          > Their evaluation of the "base"
          > stage of humanity, the state of being for the majority of
          humankind, and
          > its foundation; sin - is similar to that of the Messalians, while
          it is
          > quite different from the Cathars, because the latter, while divided
          > between Traducianism (wherein the same psychological or "psychic"
          > substance or persona is spread thin through the
          > generations originating in Adam (and sometimes in Adam and Eve))
          and the
          > belief of the pre-existence of each individual soul as angels
          fallen or
          > trapped into the condition
          > of incarnation,human bodies - who employs the idea of a metaphysical
          > cause: the fall of higher intelligences into Mutiny against God and
          the
          > "First Creation" (which appears
          > to me to be so dependant on Origenes Peri Archon (On First
          Principles)
          > that they are practically "Origenists") but most dramatically: the
          flawed,
          > rebellious, "wicked" creation
          > of the physical universe, or at least the earth and its inhabitants
          > physical forms. A "Biblical Demiurge" theme.
          >
          > With the Cathars we have an "ascension theme"; they seek liberation
          as the
          > end of all ascetic and contemplative disciplines used on their
          path; the
          > ritual of the Consolamentum are a formal seal
          > which signify towards the exterior authorities (the "powers"
          or "archons")
          > that they formally belong to the Church of God and endeavoured to
          give
          > Caesar what is Caesar`s :
          > their bodies, their birthright, their properties and so forth; as
          such,
          > the body is not claimed from the possession of evil spirits, but in
          a very
          > real sense consigned and given up to the world.
          > With the Messalians we have chiefly a "perfection theme"; they seek
          a
          > glorified deification of man as a physical creature, the role of the
          > "elite" in a Manichaean and Cathar (here they are
          > similar) setting is to "show the way", the role of the "elite" with
          the
          > Messalians is kingship,domination and leadership - a theocracy -
          the body
          > is claimed from the possession of evil
          > spirits, purified, perfected and ..according to Epiphanius, allowed
          > certain licenses which would theologically now befall the perfected
          soul,
          > while in a state of imperfection, any pleasure
          > would be considered the privilege of the devil, which of course had
          to be
          > denied him. In addition, the perfected would expect to receive all
          gifts
          > and abilities ascribed traditionally to such
          > a condition and to the "gifts of the holy spirit".
          >
          > This difference of opinion upon the theme of Soma is quite
          significant,
          > from the early 2nd century
          > dissent and disagreement, even among those which historians treat as
          > "Orthodox", have encrouched the question of the physicality or
          somatical
          > nature of Jesus/Christ,
          > the somatic or spiritual nature of Jesus resurrection and ascent
          (and
          > death, as shown in the Docetic variant) as put against the expected
          > physical or somatical "eternal abode/life"
          > of the elect or the true christians, their possible resurrection,
          and
          > "journey to heaven" - whether there is a temporal "rest" which some
          are
          > consigned to, an eternal physical hell
          > or an eternal physical paradise.. even if the anatomy of God the
          Father is
          > a complete and actual physical and material analogue to the human,
          since
          > the human is considered
          > "the image of God". Of course, they would not use those struggling
          and
          > failing terms; agreement over terminology took up quite a lot of
          the time
          > as well, and even marching out
          > as party or rebellious to one or another doctrinal Council, it
          doesnt
          > appear that everyone got the same idea of what had been agreed
          upon.. The
          > Messalians heresy would be
          > declared as such, treated as such and very strongly argued against
          *after
          > the disappearance of the heresy*, when the same ideas,practices and
          > attitudes were discovered
          > and treated in other movements...In the late middle ages. At that
          time -
          > the more sophisticated and literate followers of such, *would* have
          an
          > idea about Alchemy and other arts,
          > and would adapt either their theology to its imagry,ideas and
          terminology
          > - or vice versa. The "perfection theme" remains in a more socialized
          > fringe than the "ascension theme"-
          > the strongest "ascension theme" religion or movement, which is not
          > violently fought and polemized against by the west - is actually
          > non-Christian and non-western in origin and expression;
          > It`s Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism. The "perfection theme" in various
          kinds,
          > also including the somatic view of the Messalians - you can find
          all over,
          > but not particularized or put
          > into a dogmatic body as such; Christian Science, New Thought,
          various
          > trends of occultism including the so-called New Age - and yes, here
          we
          > *do* find it conglomerated
          > and synthetized with a symbology adapted from Alchemy.]
          >
          > The circulation of alchemical texts along sectarian groups does not
          necessarily dictate that the same religious doctrines are transmitted
          as well. Alchemy has since it inception had two sides one practical,
          the other religious. One sectarian group may interpret the religious
          side differently from the next. I suspect that a lot of what passes
          as alchemical doctrine may in fact be practical formula disguised as
          such. Imagine how chemical formulas would read if the elements on an
          elemental chart were substituted for words from the Bible. H2O might
          read as Holy Holy Omega. To the untrained eye this would appear as an
          incantation, but the Elect it is the formula for water. Ancient
          alchemists did not have the elemental chart, but they did couch their
          formulas in cryptic language equally as enigmatic.
          >
          >

          Sincerely,
          Magusadeptus
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