Re: Hello I'm new here
- It would actually be quite interesting to go into the difference
between how Clement and Irenaeus deal with Gnosticism in thier
polemics. Let's make no mistake though, that Clement was as much a
polemicist as Irenaeus. Because of this, just as we notice a
difference between the polemic writings agains Origen and his actual
works, we do find that Clements understanding of his Gnostic targets
are often a bit off mark.
Actually, we just recently had a conversation concerning the
difference between Clement and Irenaeus' accounts of the
Carpocratians, and how much the disagree... perhaps you could start
that one, Rodney.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Rodney Cecil" <wvdog61@7...>
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:54:20 -0000
> "apx0n" <apx0n@y...> wrote:
> >Thanks Rodney,
> >I'm interested in Origen and Clement, especially because
> >I've been
> >given such confused explanations of what should be
> >considered 'origenism' as opposed to Origen's own work
> >intentions. Is there a survey of his thought that you
> >recommend? In particular, I'm looking for a text that
> >compares his
> >teaching with that of his contemporaries in the
> >Catechitical school
> >of Alexandria, and highlights how he was influenced by
> I became interested, if not fascinated, with Origen over 20
> years ago and found a book by a French fellow named Henri
> Crouzel, called "Origen", that was very interesting though
> I'm not sure that its still in print.
> However, at that time I didn't have a clue what Gnosticism
> was and can't recall whether Crouzel even mentioned
> Valentinus. I think several other books have been written
> about Origen since then, though I haven't read any of them.
> What I would really recommend is that you interact with the
> writings of Clement and Origen themselves despite how time
> consuming that would be. I think you'll find the effort to
> be rewarding.
> Reading Origen as opposed to writings about Origen was a
> real eye-opener for me Josh. Like you, I had read a lot of
> what actually amounted to accusations of what Origen
> supposedly taught which often turned out to be different
> from what he said (at least as his writings have come down
> to us).
> Only recently have I turned to Clement's works and enjoy
> reading him as much as I ever enjoyed Origen.
> I find it interesting to read passages from Irenaeus'
> "Against Heresies" and compare its tone to that of Clement
> and Origen as they dealt with the Valentinians.