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Re: Hiram Key

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  • pmcvflag
    ... as a summary! I really would also like to hear the founder of this group, PMCV, who I ve know for sometime, and consider quite versatile with the Nag
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 5, 2003
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      >>Yes, and I hope I too wasn't reducing the authors' thesis too much,
      as a summary! I really would also like to hear the founder of this
      group, PMCV, who I've know for sometime, and consider quite versatile
      with the Nag literature, as well as early Christianity, to reply with
      his contectual undrstanding. I DO see the authors' point relating to
      the Israelite desire for Messianic leadership as a literal king, but
      wonder about the scope of this leadership.<<

      Hey, Ariaksatri. To start with, let me point out that there are
      actually three founders here in the club... just for the record.

      Anyways, you ask my opinion. To be honest, I have never read this
      book and cannot comment on specific points, or give you a over all
      review. I can only comment on the basic premise as you outlined it,
      and in that area I would have to express some skepticism. I can try
      to take a look at the book, if you like, but perhaps you could
      comment on the specific passages that you found compelling, I mean
      the Gnostic passages.

      I can say, I have serious doubts that the Freemasons existed before
      the 1600s, and theories that attempt to trace them back in the
      distant past tend to raise my eyebrows. Nothing is impossible, but a
      book that truely exposed such a connection would probably get quite a
      bit of serious academic attention.... though not necessarily. I am
      even less convinced that the Freemasons are in any way "Gnostic".

      The notion that Jesus and James were brothers is not specific to this
      book.

      Massianic movements attempting to establish the theocratic utopia as
      a point of Jewish revelation were very common at the time of Jesus,
      and it is possible that Jesus fits this bill... it would also mean,
      however, that Jesus was not Gnostic. The Gnostic concept of Jesus is
      most definately not the returned King of the Jewish scripture. One
      would then wonder the point of using Gnostic scriptures to prove that
      Jesus was not Gnostic.

      PMCV

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, ariaksatri2 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      > > Hello ariaksatri2
      > >
      > > On 31-Aug-03, you wrote:
      > >
      > > > Greetings:
      > > >
      > > > On another list, we had been recently discussing the book, "The
      > > > Hiram Key"--but it somewhat died out; nonetheless, I wanted to
      > bring
      > > > it up here, particularly because the authors often make use of
      the
      > > > Gnostic scriptures to support their position...a use which I do
      > feel
      > > > really fits the bill. Specifically, the authors conclude that
      > Jesus
      > > > and James were brothers, members of the Essenes, who wanted to
      > > > literally establish "The Kingdom of Heaven" on Earth, as
      something
      > > > of a utopia. Now, to achieve this, "Israel" required
      > two "pillars",
      > > > a priestly and regal--a tradition from Egypt, and passing into
      > > > Freemasonry (again, very literalist and socio-political in
      > > > interpretation). At any rate, since the Gnostic scriptures often
      > > > mention that ressurection must take place BEFORE death, the
      > authors
      > > > link this to the secret practices of the Essenes, and again
      > passing
      > > > to Masonry.
      > > > I don't doubt that such ressurection Rites were part of all
      these
      > > > Traditions (in fact, they seem nearly universal); I do however
      > doubt
      > > > that the entire corpus of Gnostic literature can be used to
      > support
      > > > a historical theory that the *real* teachings of Jesus were
      > > > exclusively humanistic, rationalist in nature.
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