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Re: Mary Magdalene

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  • lady_caritas
    ... Magdalene ... on ... 472868- ... giving ... initiate ... Gospels ... The ... it is by ... we also ... each ... your ... Thanks for sharing your letter,
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Leavitt" <thomas@t...>
      wrote:
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com>
      > To: <gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:54 AM
      > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Digest Number 387
      >
      > >
      > > Message: 1
      > > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 00:54:44 -0000
      > > From: lady_caritas
      > > Subject: Mary Magdalene
      > >
      > > A friend forwarded the following recent article about Mary
      Magdalene
      > > that might be interesting to some of you. Gnostics are mentioned
      on
      > > pages 2 and 3 of the article. ;-)
      > >
      > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-
      472868-
      > > 1,00.html
      > >
      > >
      > > Cari
      >
      > Here's a letter I wrote to them in response:
      >
      > Editors,
      >
      > The author (and many others) mis-interpret the reference to Jesus
      giving
      > Mary Magdalene "kiss on the mouth" in the Gospel of Phillip. This is
      > standard Gnostic symbology for esoteric knowledge passed down from
      initiate
      > to initiate - Elaine Pagels discusses this in her book "The Gnostic
      Gospels"
      > as do other specialists who've studied Gnostic works. Elsewhere in
      The
      > Gospel of Phillip, in support of this interpretation, we hear: "For
      it is by
      > a kiss that the perfect conceive and give birth. For this reason,
      we also
      > kiss one another. We receive conception from the grace which is in
      each
      > other (GP 59:2-7)."
      >
      > For more information on Gnosticism and the Gnostic view of Mary,
      your
      > readers can visit The Gnosis Archive, online since 1993, at
      > http://www.gnosis.org/.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Thomas Leavitt
      > Founder, Gnosis Archive



      Thanks for sharing your letter, Thomas. Now let's see if they print
      your response in a future issue. I certainly hope so! Sometimes
      trying to convey an alternate metaphorical interpretation is an
      uphill battle in our more literalist Western setting.


      Cari
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
        Hello walkinginclogs@...

        On 13-Aug-03, you wrote:

        > In a message dated 8/13/2003 7:57:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
        > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
        >
        >
        >> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-472868-
        >> 1,00.html
        >
        > I always wanted to see that movie, "The Temptations of Christ". I'm
        > missing a word in the title. Three, or whatever. Our local video
        > rental place is owned by hard-shelled Baptists, and he refused to
        > stock it. Suppose she married Jesus, and they played house until he
        > was 32? I wouldn't hold that against either of them.

        THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by
        Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English himself,
        or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original. In the
        book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • walkinginclogs@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time, ac998@lafn.org ... I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic books
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
          In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time, ac998@... writes:


          THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST.  Never saw it, but I read the book by
          Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English himself,
          or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original.  In the
          book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.


          I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic books saying that he was ever a carpenter, yet I keep seeing preachers claiming that he was.  Also, did the book say anything about his life from age 12 to 32?
        • Mike Leavitt
          Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... It has been too many years for me to be sure, but I think not. It has been even longer since I read the New Testament from
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
            Hello walkinginclogs@...

            On 14-Aug-03, you wrote:

            > In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
            > ac998@... writes:
            >
            >
            >> THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by
            >> Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English himself,
            >> or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original. In
            >> the book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.
            >>
            >
            > I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic
            > books saying that he was ever a carpenter, yet I keep seeing
            > preachers claiming that he was. Also, did the book say anything
            > about his life from age 12 to 32?

            It has been too many years for me to be sure, but I think not. It has
            been even longer since I read the New Testament from cover to cover,
            so I don't know if there is anything in there about his being a
            carpenter, or if it is an early church story that has become
            ingrained.

            Regards
            --
            Mike Leavitt ac998@...
          • pessolo@freemail.it
            ... It has to be hold against them, because marriage and procreation are the work of evil demons. Thus it was Satornil who figured that it s the work of
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
              Mike Leavitt writes:
              > Hello walkinginclogs@...
              >
              > On 13-Aug-03, you wrote:
              >
              > > In a message dated 8/13/2003 7:57:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
              > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
              > >
              > >
              > >> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-472868-
              > >> 1,00.html
              > >
              > > I always wanted to see that movie, "The Temptations of Christ". I'm
              > > missing a word in the title. Three, or whatever. Our local video
              > > rental place is owned by hard-shelled Baptists, and he refused to
              > > stock it. Suppose she married Jesus, and they played house until he
              > > was 32? I wouldn't hold that against either of them.

              It has to be hold against them,
              because marriage and procreation are the work of evil demons.
              Thus it was Satornil who figured that it's the work of Satanael,
              and Marcion banned happily married people from
              full participation in the mystery celebrations,
              knowing correctly that marriage is a sort of prostitution.
              Julius Cassianus correctly wrote that death will rule among mankind
              as long as women continue to bear kids.
              >
              > THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by
              > Nicos Kazanzakis,

              Kazantzakis has nothing at all to do with gnostic topics.

              Klaus Schilling
            • pessolo@freemail.it
              ... there s no such thing as a Jesus of less than 30 years. Thus Marcion correctly wrote that Jesus descended at the symbolic pseudo-age of 30 from heavens to
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
                walkinginclogs@... writes:
                > anything about his life from age 12 to 32?

                there's no such thing as a Jesus of less than 30 years.
                Thus Marcion correctly wrote that Jesus descended at the
                symbolic pseudo-age of 30 from heavens to Capharnaum,
                which is hell, and not, like the churchmongers want to fool you
                to believe, a certain city in Galilee.

                Klaus Schilling
              • pessolo@freemail.it
                ... it s a carpenter (tekton) for building the true doctrine, as opposed to the idolatrous temple of Zion, and for constructing the cross on which to crucify
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
                  Mike Leavitt writes:
                  > being a carpenter

                  it's a carpenter (tekton) for building the true doctrine,
                  as opposed to the idolatrous temple of Zion,
                  and for constructing the cross on which to crucify the cosmos of the archons.

                  Klaus Schilling
                • George Harvey
                  ... by ... himself, ... has ... Hi, Doesn t it say that his father was a carpenter? George
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                    > Hello walkinginclogs@a...
                    >
                    > On 14-Aug-03, you wrote:
                    >
                    > > In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
                    > > ac998@l... writes:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >> THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book
                    by
                    > >> Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English
                    himself,
                    > >> or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original. In
                    > >> the book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > > I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic
                    > > books saying that he was ever a carpenter, yet I keep seeing
                    > > preachers claiming that he was. Also, did the book say anything
                    > > about his life from age 12 to 32?
                    >
                    > It has been too many years for me to be sure, but I think not. It
                    has
                    > been even longer since I read the New Testament from cover to cover,
                    > so I don't know if there is anything in there about his being a
                    > carpenter, or if it is an early church story that has become
                    > ingrained.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > --
                    > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...

                    Hi,
                    Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?

                    George
                  • walkinginclogs@aol.com
                    In a message dated 8/15/2003 7:03:31 AM Central Daylight Time, ... It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph was, he had to have taken
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
                      In a message dated 8/15/2003 7:03:31 AM Central Daylight Time, georgeatnsn@... writes:


                      Hi,
                      Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?

                      George


                      It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph was, he had to have taken his father's trade also, since he had nothing better to do up until age 32.
                    • Mike Leavitt
                      Hello pessolo@freemail.it ... That is the extreme Docetic position, but I suspect there may be something to it. It certainly would explain a few things. It
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
                        Hello pessolo@...

                        On 15-Aug-03, you wrote:

                        > walkinginclogs@... writes:
                        >> anything about his life from age 12 to 32?
                        >
                        > there's no such thing as a Jesus of less than 30 years.
                        > Thus Marcion correctly wrote that Jesus descended at the
                        > symbolic pseudo-age of 30 from heavens to Capharnaum,
                        > which is hell, and not, like the churchmongers want to fool you
                        > to believe, a certain city in Galilee.
                        >
                        > Klaus Schilling

                        That is the extreme Docetic position, but I suspect there may be
                        something to it. It certainly would explain a few things. It is of
                        note that John omits the birth narrative, BTW.

                        Regards
                        --
                        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                      • Mike Leavitt
                        Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... Maybe he was a fisherman, many of his disciples were, or a money changer like Matthew? :-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
                          Hello walkinginclogs@...

                          On 15-Aug-03, you wrote:

                          > In a message dated 8/15/2003 7:03:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
                          > georgeatnsn@... writes:
                          >
                          >
                          >> Hi,
                          >> Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?
                          >>
                          >> George
                          >
                          > It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph
                          > was, he had to have taken his father's trade also, since he had
                          > nothing better to do up until age 32.
                          >
                          > _The following attachments have been removed manually:_
                          > (1828 bytes, text/html)

                          Maybe he was a fisherman, many of his disciples were, or a money
                          changer like Matthew? :-)

                          Regards
                          --
                          Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                        • John Presco
                          Poor Joseph, the greatest under-achiever, or failure, of all time. Can you see him at the family gathering of those who had genealogies that survived the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 23, 2003
                            Poor Joseph, the greatest under-achiever, or failure, of all time.
                            Can you see him at the family gathering of those who had genealogies
                            that survived the captivity showing they are kin to the royal house
                            of Judah.

                            "And, what do you do for a living, Joseph?"

                            Joseph Flavius tells of those who had Davidic blood being examined by
                            Titus, their hands very soft because they did no work, he assigning
                            them to hard labour.

                            "And, what does your son do?"

                            "I'm not sure. Some say he is the king of the Jews, and others, God.
                            I can make one heck of a dove joint. Stop by the shop and I'll knock
                            a chair together for ya."

                            Jon

                            > georgeatnsn@y... writes:
                            >
                            >
                            > > Hi,
                            > > Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?
                            > >
                            > > George
                            >
                            > It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph
                            was, he had
                            > to have taken his father's trade also, since he had nothing better
                            to do up
                            > until age 32.
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