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Mary Magdalene

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  • lady_caritas
    A friend forwarded the following recent article about Mary Magdalene that might be interesting to some of you. Gnostics are mentioned on pages 2 and 3 of the
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 13, 2003
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      A friend forwarded the following recent article about Mary Magdalene
      that might be interesting to some of you. Gnostics are mentioned on
      pages 2 and 3 of the article. ;-)

      http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-472868-
      1,00.html


      Cari
    • walkinginclogs@aol.com
      In a message dated 8/13/2003 7:57:04 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I always wanted to see that movie, The Temptations of Christ . I m missing a word in the
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 13, 2003
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        In a message dated 8/13/2003 7:57:04 PM Central Daylight Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:


        http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-472868-
        1,00.html


        I always wanted to see that movie, "The Temptations of Christ".  I'm missing a word in the title.  Three, or whatever.  Our local video rental place is owned by hard-shelled Baptists, and he refused to stock it.  Suppose she married Jesus, and they played house until he was 32?  I wouldn't hold that against either of them.
      • Thomas Leavitt
        ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:54 AM Subject: [Gnosticism2] Digest Number 387 ...
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com>
          To: <gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:54 AM
          Subject: [Gnosticism2] Digest Number 387

          >
          > Message: 1
          > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 00:54:44 -0000
          > From: lady_caritas
          > Subject: Mary Magdalene
          >
          > A friend forwarded the following recent article about Mary Magdalene
          > that might be interesting to some of you. Gnostics are mentioned on
          > pages 2 and 3 of the article. ;-)
          >
          > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-472868-
          > 1,00.html
          >
          >
          > Cari

          Here's a letter I wrote to them in response:

          Editors,

          The author (and many others) mis-interpret the reference to Jesus giving
          Mary Magdalene "kiss on the mouth" in the Gospel of Phillip. This is
          standard Gnostic symbology for esoteric knowledge passed down from initiate
          to initiate - Elaine Pagels discusses this in her book "The Gnostic Gospels"
          as do other specialists who've studied Gnostic works. Elsewhere in The
          Gospel of Phillip, in support of this interpretation, we hear: "For it is by
          a kiss that the perfect conceive and give birth. For this reason, we also
          kiss one another. We receive conception from the grace which is in each
          other (GP 59:2-7)."

          For more information on Gnosticism and the Gnostic view of Mary, your
          readers can visit The Gnosis Archive, online since 1993, at
          http://www.gnosis.org/.

          Regards,
          Thomas Leavitt
          Founder, Gnosis Archive
        • lady_caritas
          ... Magdalene ... on ... 472868- ... giving ... initiate ... Gospels ... The ... it is by ... we also ... each ... your ... Thanks for sharing your letter,
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
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            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Leavitt" <thomas@t...>
            wrote:
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: <gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com>
            > To: <gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:54 AM
            > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Digest Number 387
            >
            > >
            > > Message: 1
            > > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 00:54:44 -0000
            > > From: lady_caritas
            > > Subject: Mary Magdalene
            > >
            > > A friend forwarded the following recent article about Mary
            Magdalene
            > > that might be interesting to some of you. Gnostics are mentioned
            on
            > > pages 2 and 3 of the article. ;-)
            > >
            > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-
            472868-
            > > 1,00.html
            > >
            > >
            > > Cari
            >
            > Here's a letter I wrote to them in response:
            >
            > Editors,
            >
            > The author (and many others) mis-interpret the reference to Jesus
            giving
            > Mary Magdalene "kiss on the mouth" in the Gospel of Phillip. This is
            > standard Gnostic symbology for esoteric knowledge passed down from
            initiate
            > to initiate - Elaine Pagels discusses this in her book "The Gnostic
            Gospels"
            > as do other specialists who've studied Gnostic works. Elsewhere in
            The
            > Gospel of Phillip, in support of this interpretation, we hear: "For
            it is by
            > a kiss that the perfect conceive and give birth. For this reason,
            we also
            > kiss one another. We receive conception from the grace which is in
            each
            > other (GP 59:2-7)."
            >
            > For more information on Gnosticism and the Gnostic view of Mary,
            your
            > readers can visit The Gnosis Archive, online since 1993, at
            > http://www.gnosis.org/.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Thomas Leavitt
            > Founder, Gnosis Archive



            Thanks for sharing your letter, Thomas. Now let's see if they print
            your response in a future issue. I certainly hope so! Sometimes
            trying to convey an alternate metaphorical interpretation is an
            uphill battle in our more literalist Western setting.


            Cari
          • Mike Leavitt
            Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
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              Hello walkinginclogs@...

              On 13-Aug-03, you wrote:

              > In a message dated 8/13/2003 7:57:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
              > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
              >
              >
              >> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-472868-
              >> 1,00.html
              >
              > I always wanted to see that movie, "The Temptations of Christ". I'm
              > missing a word in the title. Three, or whatever. Our local video
              > rental place is owned by hard-shelled Baptists, and he refused to
              > stock it. Suppose she married Jesus, and they played house until he
              > was 32? I wouldn't hold that against either of them.

              THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by
              Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English himself,
              or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original. In the
              book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.

              Regards
              --
              Mike Leavitt ac998@...
            • walkinginclogs@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time, ac998@lafn.org ... I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic books
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
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                In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time, ac998@... writes:


                THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST.  Never saw it, but I read the book by
                Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English himself,
                or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original.  In the
                book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.


                I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic books saying that he was ever a carpenter, yet I keep seeing preachers claiming that he was.  Also, did the book say anything about his life from age 12 to 32?
              • Mike Leavitt
                Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... It has been too many years for me to be sure, but I think not. It has been even longer since I read the New Testament from
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 14, 2003
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                  Hello walkinginclogs@...

                  On 14-Aug-03, you wrote:

                  > In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
                  > ac998@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  >> THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by
                  >> Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English himself,
                  >> or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original. In
                  >> the book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.
                  >>
                  >
                  > I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic
                  > books saying that he was ever a carpenter, yet I keep seeing
                  > preachers claiming that he was. Also, did the book say anything
                  > about his life from age 12 to 32?

                  It has been too many years for me to be sure, but I think not. It has
                  been even longer since I read the New Testament from cover to cover,
                  so I don't know if there is anything in there about his being a
                  carpenter, or if it is an early church story that has become
                  ingrained.

                  Regards
                  --
                  Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                • pessolo@freemail.it
                  ... It has to be hold against them, because marriage and procreation are the work of evil demons. Thus it was Satornil who figured that it s the work of
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
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                    Mike Leavitt writes:
                    > Hello walkinginclogs@...
                    >
                    > On 13-Aug-03, you wrote:
                    >
                    > > In a message dated 8/13/2003 7:57:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
                    > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030811-472868-
                    > >> 1,00.html
                    > >
                    > > I always wanted to see that movie, "The Temptations of Christ". I'm
                    > > missing a word in the title. Three, or whatever. Our local video
                    > > rental place is owned by hard-shelled Baptists, and he refused to
                    > > stock it. Suppose she married Jesus, and they played house until he
                    > > was 32? I wouldn't hold that against either of them.

                    It has to be hold against them,
                    because marriage and procreation are the work of evil demons.
                    Thus it was Satornil who figured that it's the work of Satanael,
                    and Marcion banned happily married people from
                    full participation in the mystery celebrations,
                    knowing correctly that marriage is a sort of prostitution.
                    Julius Cassianus correctly wrote that death will rule among mankind
                    as long as women continue to bear kids.
                    >
                    > THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book by
                    > Nicos Kazanzakis,

                    Kazantzakis has nothing at all to do with gnostic topics.

                    Klaus Schilling
                  • pessolo@freemail.it
                    ... there s no such thing as a Jesus of less than 30 years. Thus Marcion correctly wrote that Jesus descended at the symbolic pseudo-age of 30 from heavens to
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
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                      walkinginclogs@... writes:
                      > anything about his life from age 12 to 32?

                      there's no such thing as a Jesus of less than 30 years.
                      Thus Marcion correctly wrote that Jesus descended at the
                      symbolic pseudo-age of 30 from heavens to Capharnaum,
                      which is hell, and not, like the churchmongers want to fool you
                      to believe, a certain city in Galilee.

                      Klaus Schilling
                    • pessolo@freemail.it
                      ... it s a carpenter (tekton) for building the true doctrine, as opposed to the idolatrous temple of Zion, and for constructing the cross on which to crucify
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
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                        Mike Leavitt writes:
                        > being a carpenter

                        it's a carpenter (tekton) for building the true doctrine,
                        as opposed to the idolatrous temple of Zion,
                        and for constructing the cross on which to crucify the cosmos of the archons.

                        Klaus Schilling
                      • George Harvey
                        ... by ... himself, ... has ... Hi, Doesn t it say that his father was a carpenter? George
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
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                          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                          > Hello walkinginclogs@a...
                          >
                          > On 14-Aug-03, you wrote:
                          >
                          > > In a message dated 8/14/2003 7:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
                          > > ac998@l... writes:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >> THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. Never saw it, but I read the book
                          by
                          > >> Nicos Kazanzakis, he translated if from Greek into English
                          himself,
                          > >> or at least proofed it, so it is pretty true to the original. In
                          > >> the book, Jesus is a cross-maker, no less.
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > > I was wondering, I never saw anything in the bible or the Gnostic
                          > > books saying that he was ever a carpenter, yet I keep seeing
                          > > preachers claiming that he was. Also, did the book say anything
                          > > about his life from age 12 to 32?
                          >
                          > It has been too many years for me to be sure, but I think not. It
                          has
                          > been even longer since I read the New Testament from cover to cover,
                          > so I don't know if there is anything in there about his being a
                          > carpenter, or if it is an early church story that has become
                          > ingrained.
                          >
                          > Regards
                          > --
                          > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...

                          Hi,
                          Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?

                          George
                        • walkinginclogs@aol.com
                          In a message dated 8/15/2003 7:03:31 AM Central Daylight Time, ... It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph was, he had to have taken
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
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                            In a message dated 8/15/2003 7:03:31 AM Central Daylight Time, georgeatnsn@... writes:


                            Hi,
                            Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?

                            George


                            It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph was, he had to have taken his father's trade also, since he had nothing better to do up until age 32.
                          • Mike Leavitt
                            Hello pessolo@freemail.it ... That is the extreme Docetic position, but I suspect there may be something to it. It certainly would explain a few things. It
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
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                              Hello pessolo@...

                              On 15-Aug-03, you wrote:

                              > walkinginclogs@... writes:
                              >> anything about his life from age 12 to 32?
                              >
                              > there's no such thing as a Jesus of less than 30 years.
                              > Thus Marcion correctly wrote that Jesus descended at the
                              > symbolic pseudo-age of 30 from heavens to Capharnaum,
                              > which is hell, and not, like the churchmongers want to fool you
                              > to believe, a certain city in Galilee.
                              >
                              > Klaus Schilling

                              That is the extreme Docetic position, but I suspect there may be
                              something to it. It certainly would explain a few things. It is of
                              note that John omits the birth narrative, BTW.

                              Regards
                              --
                              Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                            • Mike Leavitt
                              Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... Maybe he was a fisherman, many of his disciples were, or a money changer like Matthew? :-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 15, 2003
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                                Hello walkinginclogs@...

                                On 15-Aug-03, you wrote:

                                > In a message dated 8/15/2003 7:03:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
                                > georgeatnsn@... writes:
                                >
                                >
                                >> Hi,
                                >> Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?
                                >>
                                >> George
                                >
                                > It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph
                                > was, he had to have taken his father's trade also, since he had
                                > nothing better to do up until age 32.
                                >
                                > _The following attachments have been removed manually:_
                                > (1828 bytes, text/html)

                                Maybe he was a fisherman, many of his disciples were, or a money
                                changer like Matthew? :-)

                                Regards
                                --
                                Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                              • John Presco
                                Poor Joseph, the greatest under-achiever, or failure, of all time. Can you see him at the family gathering of those who had genealogies that survived the
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 23, 2003
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                                  Poor Joseph, the greatest under-achiever, or failure, of all time.
                                  Can you see him at the family gathering of those who had genealogies
                                  that survived the captivity showing they are kin to the royal house
                                  of Judah.

                                  "And, what do you do for a living, Joseph?"

                                  Joseph Flavius tells of those who had Davidic blood being examined by
                                  Titus, their hands very soft because they did no work, he assigning
                                  them to hard labour.

                                  "And, what does your son do?"

                                  "I'm not sure. Some say he is the king of the Jews, and others, God.
                                  I can make one heck of a dove joint. Stop by the shop and I'll knock
                                  a chair together for ya."

                                  Jon

                                  > georgeatnsn@y... writes:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > Hi,
                                  > > Doesn't it say that his father was a carpenter?
                                  > >
                                  > > George
                                  >
                                  > It does, and the right-wing evangelists assume that since Joseph
                                  was, he had
                                  > to have taken his father's trade also, since he had nothing better
                                  to do up
                                  > until age 32.
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