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karma only partial truth

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  • martin12617
    I understand that karma, a cosmic law, affords some explanation for the discrepancies in terms of suffering, fortune, health etc. among people and it holds
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 3, 2003
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      I understand that karma, a cosmic law, affords some explanation for
      the discrepancies in terms of suffering, fortune, health etc. among
      people and it holds that for any cause there is an effect. It does
      not afford too much help obviously when it comes to suffering in the
      animal kingdom. Moreover, I am asking now more than ever,
      why does this law exist in the first place? Who is the lawgiver?
      Why is there the transmigration, reincarnation and other processes?
      It is truly an unfair system..., for I have not chosen my
      experiences.

      Not too long ago, I reflected on man's suffering and find out that
      eventhough we were quite badly wounded in the creation process, man
      is a natural whiner: For, so I wondered what of a more sad story one
      would have to read, if one read e.g. the story about the history of
      the pig and their ancestry. 'Once coming from high above, then put in
      the dark land called the material world, we were prey for other
      creatures, eventhough we still had our freedom. That was B.M.
      (='before man').Then man came, what followed are the 10,000 years of
      slavery, where our man/women were manufactured in holocaust camps'.
      This is not a science fiction or fantasy bestseller, but the true
      world we are living in. Men invented for men, cemeteries, and
      slaughterhouses, for pigs.

      Reflecting upon man's supposed superiority, I came to know that
      animals have religion, poetry, art, and science - why should only man
      have these things? According to some orthodox, man has these things
      as the only one creature in this only one universe. This is not a
      limited view anymore, this is a pathetic condition. I looked high
      above where the bird parents built the nest and in there I saw the
      little offspring. Have I chosen to become a man? When? To me it is
      the same, if I see the offspring in the hospital beds or in the nests
      high above in the trees.

      The works of the demiurge are indeed remarkable: We were separated so
      well that we don;t recognize each other nor that these creatures, we
      call dumb and acting out of instincts, are like us... The separation
      occurs on many levels: language is the most obvious barrier. With it,
      each species thinks that it is superior to the other one and so
      different. Animals do it among themselves, and we do it towards them
      too. All err. Fortunately, the enlightening process comes to us all.
      Sophia hears the mourning of the entire creation and assuredly comes
      to help. Gnosticism reaches out to the whole creation, seen and
      unseen, for it is of the essence of the ultimate God who embraces all.
      Martin
    • pmcvflag
      Martin I understand how tempting it is to see similarities in many religions (expecially since the works of people like Jung and Campbell are so popular), but
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 4, 2003
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        Martin

        I understand how tempting it is to see similarities in many religions
        (expecially since the works of people like Jung and Campbell are so
        popular), but "karma" is an eastern idea that does not have a direct
        equivalent in Gnosticism. Whether or not it exists, it is not
        necessarily able to be reconciled with the Gnostic cosmoconception.

        There is a word that may have some relation to what you seem to be
        trying to convey though. The word "Heimarene" basically
        means "destiny", and while it doesn't seem to have been viewed as
        something proceeding from a past life, it would certainly have a
        similar influence on a living being that "karma" would.

        However, we now run into another problem. In Gnosticism, Heimarene
        was only determinate to the lives of Hylics and Psychics..... not
        Pnuematics. In other words, one who had gained some level of Gnosis
        would no longer be bound by any predestination. Presumably, if the
        Gnostics had believed in karma (which they did not) the same
        principle would apply, so that the pneumatic gnostic was not beholden
        to any "cosmic law" of this sort.

        PMCV

        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "martin12617" <martin12617@y...>
        wrote:
        > I understand that karma, a cosmic law, affords some explanation for
        > the discrepancies in terms of suffering, fortune, health etc. among
        > people and it holds that for any cause there is an effect. It does
        > not afford too much help obviously when it comes to suffering in
        the
        > animal kingdom. Moreover, I am asking now more than ever,
        > why does this law exist in the first place? Who is the lawgiver?
        > Why is there the transmigration, reincarnation and other processes?
        > It is truly an unfair system..., for I have not chosen my
        > experiences.
        >
        > Not too long ago, I reflected on man's suffering and find out that
        > eventhough we were quite badly wounded in the creation process, man
        > is a natural whiner: For, so I wondered what of a more sad story
        one
        > would have to read, if one read e.g. the story about the history of
        > the pig and their ancestry. 'Once coming from high above, then put
        in
        > the dark land called the material world, we were prey for other
        > creatures, eventhough we still had our freedom. That was B.M.
        > (='before man').Then man came, what followed are the 10,000 years
        of
        > slavery, where our man/women were manufactured in holocaust camps'.
        > This is not a science fiction or fantasy bestseller, but the true
        > world we are living in. Men invented for men, cemeteries, and
        > slaughterhouses, for pigs.
        >
        > Reflecting upon man's supposed superiority, I came to know that
        > animals have religion, poetry, art, and science - why should only
        man
        > have these things? According to some orthodox, man has these things
        > as the only one creature in this only one universe. This is not a
        > limited view anymore, this is a pathetic condition. I looked high
        > above where the bird parents built the nest and in there I saw the
        > little offspring. Have I chosen to become a man? When? To me it is
        > the same, if I see the offspring in the hospital beds or in the
        nests
        > high above in the trees.
        >
        > The works of the demiurge are indeed remarkable: We were separated
        so
        > well that we don;t recognize each other nor that these creatures,
        we
        > call dumb and acting out of instincts, are like us... The
        separation
        > occurs on many levels: language is the most obvious barrier. With
        it,
        > each species thinks that it is superior to the other one and so
        > different. Animals do it among themselves, and we do it towards
        them
        > too. All err. Fortunately, the enlightening process comes to us
        all.
        > Sophia hears the mourning of the entire creation and assuredly
        comes
        > to help. Gnosticism reaches out to the whole creation, seen and
        > unseen, for it is of the essence of the ultimate God who embraces
        all.
        > Martin
      • Mike Leavitt
        Hello martin12617 ... Greed, stupidity, and incompetence rule the world. Life is not fair, who said it was? Ask Saklas why. The concept of the Demiurge
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 4, 2003
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          Hello martin12617

          On 03-Jul-03, you wrote:

          > I understand that karma, a cosmic law, affords some explanation for
          > the discrepancies in terms of suffering, fortune, health etc. among
          > people and it holds that for any cause there is an effect. It does
          > not afford too much help obviously when it comes to suffering in the
          > animal kingdom. Moreover, I am asking now more than ever, why does
          > this law exist in the first place? Who is the lawgiver? Why is there
          > the transmigration, reincarnation and other processes? It is truly
          > an unfair system..., for I have not chosen my experiences.
          >
          > Not too long ago, I reflected on man's suffering and find out that
          > even though we were quite badly wounded in the creation process, man
          > is a natural whiner: For, so I wondered what of a more sad story one
          > would have to read, if one read e.g. the story about the history of
          > the pig and their ancestry. 'Once coming from high above, then put
          > in the dark land called the material world, we were prey for other
          > creatures, even though we still had our freedom. That was B.M.
          > (='before man').Then man came, what followed are the 10,000 years of
          > slavery, where our man/women were manufactured in holocaust camps'.
          > This is not a science fiction or fantasy bestseller, but the true
          > world we are living in. Men invented for men, cemeteries, and
          > slaughterhouses, for pigs.
          >
          > Reflecting upon man's supposed superiority, I came to know that
          > animals have religion, poetry, art, and science - why should only
          > man have these things? According to some orthodox, man has these
          > things as the only one creature in this only one universe. This is
          > not a limited view anymore, this is a pathetic condition. I looked
          > high above where the bird parents built the nest and in there I saw
          > the little offspring. Have I chosen to become a man? When? To me it
          > is the same, if I see the offspring in the hospital beds or in the
          > nests high above in the trees.
          >
          > The works of the demiurge are indeed remarkable: We were separated
          > so well that we don;t recognize each other nor that these creatures,
          > we call dumb and acting out of instincts, are like us... The
          > separation occurs on many levels: language is the most obvious
          > barrier. With it, each species thinks that it is superior to the
          > other one and so different. Animals do it among themselves, and we
          > do it towards them too. All err. Fortunately, the enlightening
          > process comes to us all. Sophia hears the mourning of the entire
          > creation and assuredly comes to help. Gnosticism reaches out to the
          > whole creation, seen and unseen, for it is of the essence of the
          > ultimate God who embraces all. Martin

          Greed, stupidity, and incompetence rule the world. Life is not fair,
          who said it was? Ask Saklas why. The concept of the Demiurge
          explains most, if not all, of it, and is what sets Gnosticism apart
          from other religions. Only Buddhism comes close, with its idea of the
          inherent suffering of life.

          Regards
          --
          Mike Leavitt ac998@...
        • martin12617
          Mike thanks for your comment. I will mark the other attributes, which have to be attackedL: greed, stupidity, and incompetence. Saklas better watches out, when
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 4, 2003
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            Mike thanks for your comment. I will mark the other attributes, which
            have to be attackedL: greed, stupidity, and incompetence.
            Saklas better watches out, when I get him finally one day on the line!

            PS By the way, I had a revelation: Not the one I had before, which I
            posted here. But, I do get sometimes, from my mind, quick, quiet,
            direct messages, which are either on the basis of "do it" or "dont do
            it", and only sometimes the answers are more elaborate. Just recent
            when I was thinking about Saklas again, I was told to finish it off
            and then I got also a "No". So I felt actually sorry for Saklas, when
            I someplace accused him wrongly. I am not joking, I am taking this
            message seriously. The message told me to stop queerbashing the
            demiurge! It shows me that there is a missing link, Saklas is not all
            that bad, therefore we should exercise some self-restraint in bashing
            him, which is however easier said than done for a Gnostic. Regards,
            Martin
          • Mike Leavitt
            Hello martin12617 ... Well it is said, give the devil his due. ;-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 5, 2003
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              Hello martin12617

              On 04-Jul-03, you wrote:

              > Mike thanks for your comment. I will mark the other attributes,
              > which have to be attackedL: greed, stupidity, and incompetence.
              > Saklas better watches out, when I get him finally one day on the
              > line!
              >
              > PS By the way, I had a revelation: Not the one I had before, which I
              > posted here. But, I do get sometimes, from my mind, quick, quiet,
              > direct messages, which are either on the basis of "do it" or "dont
              > do it", and only sometimes the answers are more elaborate. Just
              > recent when I was thinking about Saklas again, I was told to finish
              > it off and then I got also a "No". So I felt actually sorry for
              > Saklas, when I someplace accused him wrongly. I am not joking, I am
              > taking this message seriously. The message told me to stop
              > queerbashing the demiurge! It shows me that there is a missing link,
              > Saklas is not all that bad, therefore we should exercise some
              > self-restraint in bashing him, which is however easier said than
              > done for a Gnostic. Regards, Martin

              Well it is said, "give the devil his due." ;-)

              Regards
              --
              Mike Leavitt ac998@...
            • lady_caritas
              ... Mike, your comment here, along with recent threads about sex and spirituality reminds me of a joke: A golfer is in a competitive match with a friend, who
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 5, 2003
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                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:

                > Well it is said, "give the devil his due." ;-)
                >
                > Regards
                > --
                > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


                Mike, your comment here, along with recent threads about sex and
                spirituality reminds me of a joke:


                A golfer is in a competitive match with a friend, who is ahead by a
                couple of strokes.
                "Boy, I'd give anything to sink this putt," the golfer mumbles to
                himself.
                Just then, a stranger walks up beside him and whispers, "Would you be
                willing to give up one-fourth of your sex life?"
                Thinking that the man is crazy and his answer will be meaningless,
                the golfer also feels that maybe this is a good omen so he
                says, "Sure," and sinks the putt.
                Two holes later, he mumbles to himself again, "Gee, I sure would like
                to get an eagle on this one."
                The same stranger is at his side and whispers, "Would it be worth
                giving up another fourth of your sex life?"
                Shrugging, the golfer replies, "Okay," and makes an eagle.
                On the final hole, the golfer needs another eagle to win. Without
                waiting for him to say anything, the stranger quickly moves to his
                side and says, "Would winning this match be worth giving up the rest
                of your sex life?"
                "Definitely," the golfer replies, and he makes the eagle.
                As the golfer is walking to the club house, the stranger walks
                alongside of him and says, "I haven't really been fair with you
                because you don't know who I am. I'm the devil, and from this day
                forward you will have no sex life."
                "Nice to meet you," the golfer replies, "I'm Father O'Malley."
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