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the club

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  • Martin Khoury
    pmcvflag, I think one of us is in the wrong club. But as to your comment. The fundamental principles of Gnostic teaching I regard, the creation myth and its
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
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      pmcvflag,
       
      I think one of us is in the wrong club. But as to your comment. The fundamental principles of Gnostic teaching I regard, the creation myth and its parallel or counterpart in the psyche. After all, external events become external events through us.
      We will be reached thru the psyche. So I dwelt on this for a while, right?
      So and then the events took course. I hope this sufficies for you.
      I think you limit the purpose of the "club" by stating that we will (who is we?),
      review and evaluate modern with traditional teachings. I think Gnosis, Gnosticism is a very broad subject with certainly common elements. Don;t limit it, don't limit yourself.
      So once again, sorry about the imprecision, fundamental principles of Gnosticism I view the creative narrative in form of the myth, Sophia descending from above in search of the light and the psychological parallel of this mythologem. There are certainly other myths, they then too are part of the fundamental principles. The reincarnation you are right I admit not a universally followed doctrine or concept within the traditional Gnostic traditions. To me it is very real until I find another explanation. I am referring to my dream. Have a nice day! Martin 
      pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      Hello Martin

      "Yesterday, I had a funny revelation: As I was pondering and reciting
      in my mind the most fundamental principles of gnosticism"

      In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
      us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
      to be. Past life experience is certainly an interesting enough
      subject, but for the most part one that is outside of traditional
      Gnostic belief systems. While this does not mean that it is without
      value to your personal modern form of Gnosticism, part of the purpose
      of this club is to relate or contrast or modern ideas with that of
      traditional Gnosticism.

      PMCV



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    • pessy@chez.com
      ... Docetism, Dualism, Pessimism, Misocosmism, and Misonomianism. Klaus Schilling
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
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        pmcvflag writes:
        >
        > In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
        > us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
        > to be.

        Docetism, Dualism, Pessimism, Misocosmism, and Misonomianism.

        Klaus Schilling
      • pmcvflag
        ... Well, you may be right, Martin, in saying that one of us is in the wrong club. However, since I am one of the founders here, and one of the people who
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 3, 2003
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          >>>I think one of us is in the wrong club.<<<<

          Well, you may be right, Martin, in saying that one of us is in the
          wrong club. However, since I am one of the founders here, and one of
          the people who chose exactly what the topic of this club is intended
          to be.... that wrong person would have to be you.

          >>>I think you limit the purpose of the "club"<<<

          You are absolutely right Martin, I do limit the purpose of this club.
          The club has a specific purpose which the co-founders and myself have
          created, and we are not going to change that purpose to the
          discussion of Nascar, or Scooby Doo.... I am sure there are already
          clubs for that.

          >>>I think Gnosis, Gnosticism is a very broad subject with certainly
          common elements.<<<<

          Well, your definition is fine for you. However, for this clubs
          purpose the term "Gnosticism" refers only to the word as it was
          coined by the scholors who have been instrumental in it's creation.
          Just as we are no here to talk about Nascar, we are not here to talk
          about alternative layperson definitions of what "Gnosticism" is....
          there are already other clubs for that as well.

          Think of this club as a seminar format university class. There are
          the professors who teach the class, there are visiting professors who
          contribute a great deal, and there are the students who are allowed
          to interact as long as the class stays on topic. This club is like
          that university study format. The club has a stated purpose, it has
          acceptable an inacceptable subject matter (and behavior), and anyone
          who is here is here as a guest based on their interest in the subject
          at hand, and thier presence is at the discression of the person who
          is running the class.

          So, you may now be asking "well, what is the subject then?". The
          subject is specifically to deal with traditional (historical) forms
          of that academic invention called "Gnosticism" as well as how they
          effect our modern selves.

          You do raise a point that is on topic....

          >>>The reincarnation you are right I admit not a universally followed
          doctrine or concept within the traditional Gnostic traditions.<<<<

          To some extent we have come across this topic a few times. There are
          mentions of transmigration in Gnostic (and realated) sources, we have
          debated the possibility of metempsychosis as well. There are no
          mentions that I can think of where "reincarnation" is talked about in
          Gnostic sources though (maybe I have forgotton one somewhere). So,
          not only is it not a "universally followed doctrine", I question
          question if it is a doctrin that any Gnostic group believed in.

          However, this does not mean that a modern person is not justified in
          thier personal belief. But, there is something more. An interesting
          subject could be whether reincarnation can be reconciled with the
          notions of spirit seen in various Gnostic sects. For instance, the
          belief we see in some texts that spirit is something put on, like a
          vest, as opposed to an innate quality in every human. To take that
          idea to it's conclusion would make reincarnation a very difficult
          juxteposition (since those without the spirit would simply die, and
          those with the spirit would have laready found "Gnosis" and thus
          achieved release from the world) Aother example would be the
          Manichaean belief that spirit holds no memory, and that it is
          recycled. This would make the "past life" experience impossible.

          Anyways, I am not forwarding any specific theory myself, merely
          pointing out how reincarnation certainly cannot work with all forms
          of "biblical demiurgy" movements. Surely there were some that may
          have believed in it though.

          PMCV
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