Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: why me?

Expand Messages
  • pmcvflag
    Hello Martin Yesterday, I had a funny revelation: As I was pondering and reciting in my mind the most fundamental principles of gnosticism In fact, it would
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
      Hello Martin

      "Yesterday, I had a funny revelation: As I was pondering and reciting
      in my mind the most fundamental principles of gnosticism"

      In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
      us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
      to be. Past life experience is certainly an interesting enough
      subject, but for the most part one that is outside of traditional
      Gnostic belief systems. While this does not mean that it is without
      value to your personal modern form of Gnosticism, part of the purpose
      of this club is to relate or contrast or modern ideas with that of
      traditional Gnosticism.

      PMCV
    • Martin Khoury
      pmcvflag, I think one of us is in the wrong club. But as to your comment. The fundamental principles of Gnostic teaching I regard, the creation myth and its
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
        pmcvflag,
         
        I think one of us is in the wrong club. But as to your comment. The fundamental principles of Gnostic teaching I regard, the creation myth and its parallel or counterpart in the psyche. After all, external events become external events through us.
        We will be reached thru the psyche. So I dwelt on this for a while, right?
        So and then the events took course. I hope this sufficies for you.
        I think you limit the purpose of the "club" by stating that we will (who is we?),
        review and evaluate modern with traditional teachings. I think Gnosis, Gnosticism is a very broad subject with certainly common elements. Don;t limit it, don't limit yourself.
        So once again, sorry about the imprecision, fundamental principles of Gnosticism I view the creative narrative in form of the myth, Sophia descending from above in search of the light and the psychological parallel of this mythologem. There are certainly other myths, they then too are part of the fundamental principles. The reincarnation you are right I admit not a universally followed doctrine or concept within the traditional Gnostic traditions. To me it is very real until I find another explanation. I am referring to my dream. Have a nice day! Martin 
        pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        Hello Martin

        "Yesterday, I had a funny revelation: As I was pondering and reciting
        in my mind the most fundamental principles of gnosticism"

        In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
        us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
        to be. Past life experience is certainly an interesting enough
        subject, but for the most part one that is outside of traditional
        Gnostic belief systems. While this does not mean that it is without
        value to your personal modern form of Gnosticism, part of the purpose
        of this club is to relate or contrast or modern ideas with that of
        traditional Gnosticism.

        PMCV



        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        gnosticism2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        Do you Yahoo!?
        SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
      • pessy@chez.com
        ... Docetism, Dualism, Pessimism, Misocosmism, and Misonomianism. Klaus Schilling
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
          pmcvflag writes:
          >
          > In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
          > us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
          > to be.

          Docetism, Dualism, Pessimism, Misocosmism, and Misonomianism.

          Klaus Schilling
        • pmcvflag
          ... Well, you may be right, Martin, in saying that one of us is in the wrong club. However, since I am one of the founders here, and one of the people who
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 3, 2003
            >>>I think one of us is in the wrong club.<<<<

            Well, you may be right, Martin, in saying that one of us is in the
            wrong club. However, since I am one of the founders here, and one of
            the people who chose exactly what the topic of this club is intended
            to be.... that wrong person would have to be you.

            >>>I think you limit the purpose of the "club"<<<

            You are absolutely right Martin, I do limit the purpose of this club.
            The club has a specific purpose which the co-founders and myself have
            created, and we are not going to change that purpose to the
            discussion of Nascar, or Scooby Doo.... I am sure there are already
            clubs for that.

            >>>I think Gnosis, Gnosticism is a very broad subject with certainly
            common elements.<<<<

            Well, your definition is fine for you. However, for this clubs
            purpose the term "Gnosticism" refers only to the word as it was
            coined by the scholors who have been instrumental in it's creation.
            Just as we are no here to talk about Nascar, we are not here to talk
            about alternative layperson definitions of what "Gnosticism" is....
            there are already other clubs for that as well.

            Think of this club as a seminar format university class. There are
            the professors who teach the class, there are visiting professors who
            contribute a great deal, and there are the students who are allowed
            to interact as long as the class stays on topic. This club is like
            that university study format. The club has a stated purpose, it has
            acceptable an inacceptable subject matter (and behavior), and anyone
            who is here is here as a guest based on their interest in the subject
            at hand, and thier presence is at the discression of the person who
            is running the class.

            So, you may now be asking "well, what is the subject then?". The
            subject is specifically to deal with traditional (historical) forms
            of that academic invention called "Gnosticism" as well as how they
            effect our modern selves.

            You do raise a point that is on topic....

            >>>The reincarnation you are right I admit not a universally followed
            doctrine or concept within the traditional Gnostic traditions.<<<<

            To some extent we have come across this topic a few times. There are
            mentions of transmigration in Gnostic (and realated) sources, we have
            debated the possibility of metempsychosis as well. There are no
            mentions that I can think of where "reincarnation" is talked about in
            Gnostic sources though (maybe I have forgotton one somewhere). So,
            not only is it not a "universally followed doctrine", I question
            question if it is a doctrin that any Gnostic group believed in.

            However, this does not mean that a modern person is not justified in
            thier personal belief. But, there is something more. An interesting
            subject could be whether reincarnation can be reconciled with the
            notions of spirit seen in various Gnostic sects. For instance, the
            belief we see in some texts that spirit is something put on, like a
            vest, as opposed to an innate quality in every human. To take that
            idea to it's conclusion would make reincarnation a very difficult
            juxteposition (since those without the spirit would simply die, and
            those with the spirit would have laready found "Gnosis" and thus
            achieved release from the world) Aother example would be the
            Manichaean belief that spirit holds no memory, and that it is
            recycled. This would make the "past life" experience impossible.

            Anyways, I am not forwarding any specific theory myself, merely
            pointing out how reincarnation certainly cannot work with all forms
            of "biblical demiurgy" movements. Surely there were some that may
            have believed in it though.

            PMCV
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.