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Re: [Gnosticism2] Reincarnation

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  • Gloria Powell-Frederickson
    That s really neat... I have three daughters (ages 8, 4, and 2), and according to a few stories my 4yo has told me, SHE was MY mother in a past life also...
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 1, 2003
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      That's really neat... I have three daughters (ages 8, 4, and 2), and according to a few stories my 4yo has told me, SHE was MY mother in a past life also... that is SO cool... I read somewhere that oftentimes family members reincarnate with you as family members or close friends again in the future (or past)....
      Also, I had a past life dramatization in hypnosis once.... I was trying to figure out the reason for my neck and shoulder pain....... In the past life I was a male Native American with a wife and very new baby.... I went out one day upon a horse and was captured and stabbed by Englishmen in the neck....
      I wish I knew ALL of my reincarnations! That would be awesome... I am curious as to how many Native American incarnations I might have because I do know that I have a very close Spirit Guide called Chief Yellowknife.... but that is all I know about him. (And I have always had a very keene interest in and tearful heart for their past mistreatments)... and in this life I am not Native American.... Well, I am some beautiful mix of Dutch, Irish, Scottish, Polish, and Cherokee Indian (grandmother).... I am not altogether sure how accurate this even is, but for fun I still try to figure out what I got of which heritage all the time.... 
      Oops sorry.got a little off topic there!
      Blessings,
      Gloria
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:12:02 PM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Reincarnation
       
      This was an experience that happened with my daughter:  At the time she was barely four years old.  She was playing with her doll house when our cat, Shadow, came along and scooped all her furniture out so he could lay down in it.  I said to her, "Isn't that funny?!  When I was your age, I had a cat named Smokie who used to do the same thing with my doll house."  For a moment, that I can't really explain, her eyes became completely grown up and her whole persona changed as she looked at me and said very seriously, "Oh yes, I remember,  that's when I was YOUR mother." 
       
      As quickly as the change had happened, it dissipated and she went back to being a four year old little girl.  But I will never forget that experience.
       
      Peace,
      Judi

      martin12617 <martin12617@...> wrote:
      Hello everybody,

      I wanted to ask, whether someone of you had a reincarnation exerience
      of some sort. I remember a dream I had as a child that I dreamt a
      dream of someone else and I felt an overlap of mine and someone elses
      presence and existence. I have to say that this someone is me. Today
      I know that either that was reincarnation or it was merely a
      psychological phenomenon I have no clear explanation for yet.
      Martin



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    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello Gloria ... It is said that the reason we do not remember past lives usually is because we would live in the past, and it would hinder current
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
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        Hello Gloria

        On 01-Jul-03, you wrote:

        >That's really neat... I have three daughters (ages 8, 4, and 2), and
        >according to a few stories my 4yo has told me, SHE was MY mother in
        >a past life also... that is SO cool... I read somewhere that
        >oftentimes family members reincarnate with you as family members or
        >close friends again in the future (or past).... Also, I had a past
        >life dramatization in hypnosis once.... I was trying to figure out
        >the reason for my neck and shoulder pain....... In the past life I
        >was a male Native American with a wife and very new baby.... I went
        >out one day upon a horse and was captured and stabbed by Englishmen
        >in the neck.

        It is said that the reason we do not remember past lives usually is
        because we would live in the past, and it would hinder current
        development. When one does remember, it is usually for a reason,
        something we have to learn again from it.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • pmcvflag
        Hello Martin Yesterday, I had a funny revelation: As I was pondering and reciting in my mind the most fundamental principles of gnosticism In fact, it would
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
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          Hello Martin

          "Yesterday, I had a funny revelation: As I was pondering and reciting
          in my mind the most fundamental principles of gnosticism"

          In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
          us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
          to be. Past life experience is certainly an interesting enough
          subject, but for the most part one that is outside of traditional
          Gnostic belief systems. While this does not mean that it is without
          value to your personal modern form of Gnosticism, part of the purpose
          of this club is to relate or contrast or modern ideas with that of
          traditional Gnosticism.

          PMCV
        • Martin Khoury
          pmcvflag, I think one of us is in the wrong club. But as to your comment. The fundamental principles of Gnostic teaching I regard, the creation myth and its
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
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            pmcvflag,
             
            I think one of us is in the wrong club. But as to your comment. The fundamental principles of Gnostic teaching I regard, the creation myth and its parallel or counterpart in the psyche. After all, external events become external events through us.
            We will be reached thru the psyche. So I dwelt on this for a while, right?
            So and then the events took course. I hope this sufficies for you.
            I think you limit the purpose of the "club" by stating that we will (who is we?),
            review and evaluate modern with traditional teachings. I think Gnosis, Gnosticism is a very broad subject with certainly common elements. Don;t limit it, don't limit yourself.
            So once again, sorry about the imprecision, fundamental principles of Gnosticism I view the creative narrative in form of the myth, Sophia descending from above in search of the light and the psychological parallel of this mythologem. There are certainly other myths, they then too are part of the fundamental principles. The reincarnation you are right I admit not a universally followed doctrine or concept within the traditional Gnostic traditions. To me it is very real until I find another explanation. I am referring to my dream. Have a nice day! Martin 
            pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            Hello Martin

            "Yesterday, I had a funny revelation: As I was pondering and reciting
            in my mind the most fundamental principles of gnosticism"

            In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
            us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
            to be. Past life experience is certainly an interesting enough
            subject, but for the most part one that is outside of traditional
            Gnostic belief systems. While this does not mean that it is without
            value to your personal modern form of Gnosticism, part of the purpose
            of this club is to relate or contrast or modern ideas with that of
            traditional Gnosticism.

            PMCV



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          • pessy@chez.com
            ... Docetism, Dualism, Pessimism, Misocosmism, and Misonomianism. Klaus Schilling
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 2, 2003
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              pmcvflag writes:
              >
              > In fact, it would be very much to the point of the club if you told
              > us exactly what you viewed the "fundemental principles of gnosticism"
              > to be.

              Docetism, Dualism, Pessimism, Misocosmism, and Misonomianism.

              Klaus Schilling
            • pmcvflag
              ... Well, you may be right, Martin, in saying that one of us is in the wrong club. However, since I am one of the founders here, and one of the people who
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 3, 2003
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                >>>I think one of us is in the wrong club.<<<<

                Well, you may be right, Martin, in saying that one of us is in the
                wrong club. However, since I am one of the founders here, and one of
                the people who chose exactly what the topic of this club is intended
                to be.... that wrong person would have to be you.

                >>>I think you limit the purpose of the "club"<<<

                You are absolutely right Martin, I do limit the purpose of this club.
                The club has a specific purpose which the co-founders and myself have
                created, and we are not going to change that purpose to the
                discussion of Nascar, or Scooby Doo.... I am sure there are already
                clubs for that.

                >>>I think Gnosis, Gnosticism is a very broad subject with certainly
                common elements.<<<<

                Well, your definition is fine for you. However, for this clubs
                purpose the term "Gnosticism" refers only to the word as it was
                coined by the scholors who have been instrumental in it's creation.
                Just as we are no here to talk about Nascar, we are not here to talk
                about alternative layperson definitions of what "Gnosticism" is....
                there are already other clubs for that as well.

                Think of this club as a seminar format university class. There are
                the professors who teach the class, there are visiting professors who
                contribute a great deal, and there are the students who are allowed
                to interact as long as the class stays on topic. This club is like
                that university study format. The club has a stated purpose, it has
                acceptable an inacceptable subject matter (and behavior), and anyone
                who is here is here as a guest based on their interest in the subject
                at hand, and thier presence is at the discression of the person who
                is running the class.

                So, you may now be asking "well, what is the subject then?". The
                subject is specifically to deal with traditional (historical) forms
                of that academic invention called "Gnosticism" as well as how they
                effect our modern selves.

                You do raise a point that is on topic....

                >>>The reincarnation you are right I admit not a universally followed
                doctrine or concept within the traditional Gnostic traditions.<<<<

                To some extent we have come across this topic a few times. There are
                mentions of transmigration in Gnostic (and realated) sources, we have
                debated the possibility of metempsychosis as well. There are no
                mentions that I can think of where "reincarnation" is talked about in
                Gnostic sources though (maybe I have forgotton one somewhere). So,
                not only is it not a "universally followed doctrine", I question
                question if it is a doctrin that any Gnostic group believed in.

                However, this does not mean that a modern person is not justified in
                thier personal belief. But, there is something more. An interesting
                subject could be whether reincarnation can be reconciled with the
                notions of spirit seen in various Gnostic sects. For instance, the
                belief we see in some texts that spirit is something put on, like a
                vest, as opposed to an innate quality in every human. To take that
                idea to it's conclusion would make reincarnation a very difficult
                juxteposition (since those without the spirit would simply die, and
                those with the spirit would have laready found "Gnosis" and thus
                achieved release from the world) Aother example would be the
                Manichaean belief that spirit holds no memory, and that it is
                recycled. This would make the "past life" experience impossible.

                Anyways, I am not forwarding any specific theory myself, merely
                pointing out how reincarnation certainly cannot work with all forms
                of "biblical demiurgy" movements. Surely there were some that may
                have believed in it though.

                PMCV
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