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7 Sermons to the Dead/Jung

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  • ron3702
    Anyone here read this one? I m at the moment plowing through this dense piece of work. Quite a bit to digest it is.
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 1, 2003
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      Anyone here read this one? I'm at the moment plowing through this
      dense piece of work. Quite a bit to digest it is.
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello ron3702 ... Years ago, before they were available in the American version of MEMORIES, DREAMS AND REFLECTIONS, my Bishop, Stephan Hoeller published a
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 1, 2003
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        Hello ron3702

        On 01-Jul-03, you wrote:

        > Anyone here read this one? I'm at the moment plowing through this
        > dense piece of work. Quite a bit to digest it is.

        Years ago, before they were available in the American version of
        MEMORIES, DREAMS AND REFLECTIONS, my Bishop, Stephan Hoeller
        published a translation of them. This was in the '70's. I read them
        then, and since, once (maybe in the '80's), but frankly I don't
        remember much about the content, except that I can still conjure a
        picture of Abraxis just thinking about reading them.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • rusty
        ... Hi Ron: Yes, I read it last year and found it to be my favorite of those by Hoeller! Often one hears of modern gnostic texts and this one is the only
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 2, 2003
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "ron3702" <barroter@a...> wrote:
          > Anyone here read this one? I'm at the moment plowing through this
          > dense piece of work. Quite a bit to digest it is.

          Hi Ron:

          Yes, I read it last year and found it to be my favorite of those by
          Hoeller! Often one hears of "modern gnostic texts" and this one is
          the only one I've found so far that personally fits that category
          neatly and well.

          Rusty
        • lady_caritas
          ... Hi, Ron. Yes, it certainly is that. Here are some interesting comments from an interview with Gilles Quispel (close friend of C. G. Jung) by Christopher
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 3, 2003
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            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "ron3702" <barroter@a...> wrote:
            > Anyone here read this one? I'm at the moment plowing through this
            > dense piece of work. Quite a bit to digest it is.


            Hi, Ron. Yes, it certainly is that.

            Here are some interesting comments from an interview with Gilles
            Quispel (close friend of C. G. Jung) by Christopher Farmer (_Gnosis
            Magazine_ #1 Fall/Winter 1985, p. 29):

            Farmer: Whereas the ancient gnostics took the alternative of the
            Unknown Father seriously, Jung certainly did not.

            Quispel: Jung was not an atheist, so he did not, nor was he a pan-
            psychologist, but he did have a very personal concept of God. As he
            would say to his friends: "I can't express myself," although he did
            once in the _Septem Sermones ad Mortuos_ (1916). And you will see
            him, in all his later works, trying to formulate what he had
            experienced then, in 1915, in a scholarly way. But he was furious,
            for example, when Martin Buber identified him with the gnostics,
            because he thought that his purpose and experience was different.
            And I think he was right. For him, light and darkness and that whole
            grim oceanic feeling which man has come from, is a real issue: making
            light out of darkness—the alchemical process.
          • Wayne
            ... The Magic of the alchemical process is not to make light out of the Darkness it is to separate the Light from, out of, the Darkness. Alchemy, the Process
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 3, 2003
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              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
              wrote:
              > real issue: making light out of darkness—the alchemical process.


              The Magic of the alchemical process is not to make light out of the
              Darkness it is to separate the Light from, out of, the Darkness.

              Alchemy, the Process of Enlightenment, the ability to see, recognize,
              Realities that are not readily apparent, Dark Matter.

              When you separated the Light from, out of, the Darkness, your are
              bringing to light a Reality that is not Readily apparent to the
              Senses, can not be seen in the ordinary light of Reality, the Light
              of Day.

              By the Light of the Silvery Moon.---------->O
            • Mike Leavitt
              Hello lady_caritas ... Chris is an old friend of mine, and I forwarded this message to him. Hope you don t mind lady_caritas.  Of course being identified as a
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 3, 2003
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                Hello lady_caritas

                On 03-Jul-03, you wrote:

                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "ron3702" <barroter@a...> wrote:
                >> Anyone here read this one? I'm at the moment plowing through this
                >> dense piece of work. Quite a bit to digest it is.
                >
                >
                > Hi, Ron. Yes, it certainly is that.
                >
                > Here are some interesting comments from an interview with Gilles
                > Quispel (close friend of C. G. Jung) by Christopher Farmer (_Gnosis
                > Magazine_ #1 Fall/Winter 1985, p. 29):
                >
                > Farmer: Whereas the ancient gnostics took the alternative of the
                > Unknown Father seriously, Jung certainly did not.
                >
                > Quispel: Jung was not an atheist, so he did not, nor was he a pan-
                > psychologist, but he did have a very personal concept of God. As he
                > would say to his friends: "I can't express myself," although he did
                > once in the _Septem Sermones ad Mortuos_ (1916). And you will see
                > him, in all his later works, trying to formulate what he had
                > experienced then, in 1915, in a scholarly way. But he was furious,
                > for example, when Martin Buber identified him with the gnostics,
                > because he thought that his purpose and experience was different.
                > And I think he was right. For him, light and darkness and that whole
                > grim oceanic feeling which man has come from, is a real issue:
                > making light out of darkness the alchemical process.

                Chris is an old friend of mine, and I forwarded this message to him.
                Hope you don't mind lady_caritas.  Of course being identified as a
                Gnostic could have had very negative consequences for Jung in that
                day and age, though I think he was more alchemist than gnostic
                anyway. Now Quispel was really a gnostic, whether he admitted it
                publicly or not. A couple of short conversations with him at the
                Panarion Conference at Mt. St. Mary's in the '70s convinced me of
                that. And Scholem was really a Qabalist too, and very personable,
                though he never admitted that publicly either.

                Regards
                --
                Mike Leavitt ac998@...
              • lady_caritas
                ... this ... (_Gnosis ... he ... did ... whole ... him. ...   Oh, not at all, Mike. My goodness, you know a lot of people. ;-) Feel free to share with us
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 4, 2003
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                  > Hello lady_caritas
                  >
                  > On 03-Jul-03, you wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "ron3702" <barroter@a...>
                  wrote:
                  > >> Anyone here read this one? I'm at the moment plowing through
                  this
                  > >> dense piece of work. Quite a bit to digest it is.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi, Ron. Yes, it certainly is that.
                  > >
                  > > Here are some interesting comments from an interview with Gilles
                  > > Quispel (close friend of C. G. Jung) by Christopher Farmer
                  (_Gnosis
                  > > Magazine_ #1 Fall/Winter 1985, p. 29):
                  > >
                  > > Farmer: Whereas the ancient gnostics took the alternative of the
                  > > Unknown Father seriously, Jung certainly did not.
                  > >
                  > > Quispel: Jung was not an atheist, so he did not, nor was he a pan-
                  > > psychologist, but he did have a very personal concept of God. As
                  he
                  > > would say to his friends: "I can't express myself," although he
                  did
                  > > once in the _Septem Sermones ad Mortuos_ (1916). And you will see
                  > > him, in all his later works, trying to formulate what he had
                  > > experienced then, in 1915, in a scholarly way. But he was furious,
                  > > for example, when Martin Buber identified him with the gnostics,
                  > > because he thought that his purpose and experience was different.
                  > > And I think he was right. For him, light and darkness and that
                  whole
                  > > grim oceanic feeling which man has come from, is a real issue:
                  > > making light out of darkness the alchemical process.
                  >
                  > Chris is an old friend of mine, and I forwarded this message to
                  him.
                  > Hope you don't mind lady_caritas.
                   

                  Oh, not at all, Mike. My goodness, you know a lot of people. ;-)
                  Feel free to share with us anecdotes of interest anytime you'd like.



                  > Of course being identified as a
                  > Gnostic could have had very negative consequences for Jung in that
                  > day and age, though I think he was more alchemist than gnostic
                  > anyway. Now Quispel was really a gnostic, whether he admitted it
                  > publicly or not. A couple of short conversations with him at the
                  > Panarion Conference at Mt. St. Mary's in the '70s convinced me of
                  > that. And Scholem was really a Qabalist too, and very personable,
                  > though he never admitted that publicly either.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > --
                  > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


                  I would imagine there might always be some negative consequences in
                  personal and professional relationships when admitting to gnostic
                  views outside the mainstream. And the degree to which this happens
                  can vary depending on the social and political climate. I have to
                  give all these men that you mention credit for finding ways of
                  communicating what was important to them for the benefit of other
                  humans without completely destroying their professional credibility.


                  Cari
                • lady_caritas
                  ... recognize, ... Hi, Wayne. I don t know if you ve seen this article by Stephan Hoeller, C. G. Jung and the Alchemical Renewal. It originally appeared in
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 4, 2003
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                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <waynel@i...> wrote:
                    > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > real issue: making light out of darkness—the alchemical process.
                    >
                    >
                    > The Magic of the alchemical process is not to make light out of the
                    > Darkness it is to separate the Light from, out of, the Darkness.
                    >
                    > Alchemy, the Process of Enlightenment, the ability to see,
                    recognize,
                    > Realities that are not readily apparent, Dark Matter.
                    >
                    > When you separated the Light from, out of, the Darkness, your are
                    > bringing to light a Reality that is not Readily apparent to the
                    > Senses, can not be seen in the ordinary light of Reality, the Light
                    > of Day.
                    >
                    > By the Light of the Silvery Moon.---------->O


                    Hi, Wayne. I don't know if you've seen this article by Stephan
                    Hoeller, "C. G. Jung and the Alchemical Renewal." It originally
                    appeared in _Gnosis Magazine_, Vol. 8, Summer 1988 and is now
                    available online. The essay goes into more depth regarding Jung's
                    alchemical vision.

                    http://gnosis.org/jung_alchemy.htm


                    Cari
                  • Mike Leavitt
                    Hello lady_caritas ... I just saved that one out as a text file from my browser, and dumped it into my wordprocessor and printed it to read at my leisure. It
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 4, 2003
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                      Hello lady_caritas

                      On 04-Jul-03, you wrote:

                      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <waynel@i...> wrote:
                      >> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
                      >> wrote:
                      >>> real issue: making light out of darkness—the alchemical process.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> The Magic of the alchemical process is not to make light out of the
                      >> Darkness it is to separate the Light from, out of, the Darkness.
                      >>
                      >> Alchemy, the Process of Enlightenment, the ability to see,
                      > recognize,
                      >> Realities that are not readily apparent, Dark Matter.
                      >>
                      >> When you separated the Light from, out of, the Darkness, your are
                      >> bringing to light a Reality that is not Readily apparent to the
                      >> Senses, can not be seen in the ordinary light of Reality, the Light
                      >> of Day.
                      >>
                      >> By the Light of the Silvery Moon.---------->O
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi, Wayne. I don't know if you've seen this article by Stephan
                      > Hoeller, "C. G. Jung and the Alchemical Renewal." It originally
                      > appeared in _Gnosis Magazine_, Vol. 8, Summer 1988 and is now
                      > available online. The essay goes into more depth regarding Jung's
                      > alchemical vision.
                      >
                      > http://gnosis.org/jung_alchemy.htm

                      I just saved that one out as a text file from my browser, and dumped
                      it into my wordprocessor and printed it to read at my leisure. It is
                      pretty long. :-) I have to explore our (Gnostic Sciety's) website
                      more, there is so much one it. Thanks for the link to that one.

                      Regards
                      --
                      Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                    • Wayne
                      ... thank you, I have not seen article, I will read it.
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 6, 2003
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                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi, Wayne. I don't know if you've seen this article by Stephan
                        > Hoeller, "C. G. Jung and the Alchemical Renewal." It originally
                        > appeared in _Gnosis Magazine_, Vol. 8, Summer 1988 and is now
                        > available online. The essay goes into more depth regarding Jung's
                        > alchemical vision.
                        >
                        > http://gnosis.org/jung_alchemy.htm
                        >
                        >
                        > Cari

                        thank you, I have not seen article, I will read it.
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