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Re: Beans, Manna from Heaven

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  • Mike Leavitt
    Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... I think that is exactly what happened with the four canonical Gospels. The Orthodox church fathers turned myth into history.
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
      Hello walkinginclogs@...

      On 07-Jun-03, you wrote:

      > Could it be that they didn't intend to, but later man tried to make
      > their fiction into history? I'm not saying this happened, but I'm
      > just posing that possibility for further consideration.

      I think that is exactly what happened with the four canonical Gospels.
      The Orthodox church fathers turned myth into history. That is what
      these hell fire TV preatures are trying to do with Revelations (of
      St. John) all the time. Even the early church fathers knew better
      than to try that.

      Regards
      --
      Mike Leavitt ac998@...
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello Steve ... Ah, better yet, propaganda posing as history. Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
        Hello Steve

        On 07-Jun-03, you wrote:

        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
        >> Could it be that they didn't intend to, but later man tried to
        > make their
        >> fiction into history? I'm not saying this happened, but I'm just
        > posing that
        >> possibility for further consideration.
        >
        > I really don't think that any ancient author ever intended to write
        > history in the modern sense of the word. It was either myth-with-a-
        > meaning or propaganda for their group. Unfortunately, many people
        > today don't realize that much of what passes for history today also
        > falls into those two catagories. Yours, Steve

        Ah, better yet, propaganda posing as history.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • walkinginclogs@aol.com
        So true. Revelation forcast various wars which then took place soon after. Everything that it predicted, has already taken place. And yes, I can t possibly
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
          So true. Revelation forcast various wars which then took place soon after.
          Everything that it predicted, has already taken place. And yes, I can't
          possibly see how those fundamentalists could possibly believe that the fall of
          Babalyon is yet to come. If they believe that, they should go over there and look
          at the ruins. They say those things because it sells their religion. Join
          our church. We will SAVE you. Send us all your money, the world is about to
          end. One time I asked one of them why give it to you if the world is about to
          end. You can't use it either.

          Then too, I think that they might have written Revelation after it already
          happened. I remember Jean Dixon when she was still alive, never predicted the
          Gulf War. But she did predict that they would excavate Babylon, which was
          true. The only thing was that they had already started digging before she made
          the prediction!!
        • walkinginclogs@aol.com
          I heard about some guy who sent out 5,000 letters to investers, predicting that a certain stock would go up. Then he sent another 5,000 letters to other
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
            I heard about some guy who sent out 5,000 letters to investers, predicting
            that a certain stock would go up. Then he sent another 5,000 letters to other
            people, predicting that that same stock would go down.

            The stock went up, so he dropped the 5,000 people from his mailing list whom
            he had predicted incorrectly. Then he sent another prediction out to those
            remaining. To 2,500 he predicted a certain other stock to go up. To the other
            half he predicted it would go down. The stock went down, so he dropped the
            2,500 whom he had predicted incorrectly. Those remaining are starting to
            anxiously await his next prediction, because to the, he has been right twice in a
            row.

            He keeps doing this until he narrows his list down to 50 people, then he
            sells these 50 some worthless stock in a mining company. Even the apostles
            believed that Christ's second coming was soon. The people who have been let down
            are now dead, and another generation of suckers are born.
          • Steve
            ... soon after. ... can t ... the fall of ... over there and look ... religion. Join ... is about to ... is about to ... already ... predicted the ... which
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
              > So true. Revelation forcast various wars which then took place
              soon after.
              > Everything that it predicted, has already taken place. And yes, I
              can't
              > possibly see how those fundamentalists could possibly believe that
              the fall of
              > Babalyon is yet to come. If they believe that, they should go
              over there and look
              > at the ruins. They say those things because it sells their
              religion. Join
              > our church. We will SAVE you. Send us all your money, the world
              is about to
              > end. One time I asked one of them why give it to you if the world
              is about to
              > end. You can't use it either.
              >
              > Then too, I think that they might have written Revelation after it
              already
              > happened. I remember Jean Dixon when she was still alive, never
              predicted the
              > Gulf War. But she did predict that they would excavate Babylon,
              which was
              > true. The only thing was that they had already started digging
              before she made
              > the prediction!!

              This may sound surprising, but I think that much of the vision of
              John the Elder in the book of Revelation was written after the fact
              and referred to phenomena associated with the eruption of Vesuvius
              in 79 A.D. Dio Cassius described the volcanic eruption using
              language highly similar to John's description of the seal judgements
              and trumpet judgements. Dio Cassius spoke of mountains being thrown
              into the sea, hills leaping about during the terrible earthquakes
              that accompanied the eruption. He spoke of the streams and bodies of
              water being poisoned for many miles around by the volcanic ash,
              killing large numbers of fish, fowl and wildlife. He said that the
              dark clouds extended as far as Rome, Egypt and Syria, blotting out
              the sun and plunging the land in darkness like night. He also said
              that the eruption was accompanied by one of the worst outbreaks of
              plague that the ancient world had ever seen [probably from the
              poisonous ash] causing terrible sores to break out on the skin.
              Amazingly, he even said that the eruption produced a loud noise like
              a trumpet being blown! I suspect that early christians saw the
              eruption of Vessuvius as being a sign of the End-Time, and that is
              why John incorporated it into his "vision". I believe that the four
              horsemen of the Apocalypse referred to the destruction of Jerusalem
              in 70 A.D. The first rider who "rode forth to conquer" and
              was "given a crown" was, in my opinion Titus who rode forth against
              and conquered Jerusalem and was crowned emperor after Vespassion.
              the other four horsemen refer to the war, the famine accompanying it
              and the prisoners being thrown to the wild beasts in the arena in
              rome after the war. Of course, John wrote about all this after the
              fact, but injected it into his vision for the edification of his
              followers. Just my opinion. Yours, Steve
            • Steve
              ... predicting ... letters to other ... list whom ... to those ... To the other ... dropped the ... starting to ... right twice in a ... then he ... the
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                > I heard about some guy who sent out 5,000 letters to investers,
                predicting
                > that a certain stock would go up. Then he sent another 5,000
                letters to other
                > people, predicting that that same stock would go down.
                >
                > The stock went up, so he dropped the 5,000 people from his mailing
                list whom
                > he had predicted incorrectly. Then he sent another prediction out
                to those
                > remaining. To 2,500 he predicted a certain other stock to go up.
                To the other
                > half he predicted it would go down. The stock went down, so he
                dropped the
                > 2,500 whom he had predicted incorrectly. Those remaining are
                starting to
                > anxiously await his next prediction, because to the, he has been
                right twice in a
                > row.
                >
                > He keeps doing this until he narrows his list down to 50 people,
                then he
                > sells these 50 some worthless stock in a mining company. Even
                the apostles
                > believed that Christ's second coming was soon. The people who
                have been let down
                > are now dead, and another generation of suckers are born.

                Very true. It's amazing how easily people buy into it. The book of
                Revelation continually says that the End is coming soon. At the end
                of the book it even has the Angel tell John not to seal up the
                scroll of prophesy because it would be happening so soon. This in
                contrast to the book of Daniel where the prophesy is sealed up
                because it was going to take a long time to be fulfilled. Of course,
                John's vision was written down in the 1st century and "soon" can
                hardly mean 2000 years in the future! But fundamentalists continue
                to try to apply it to our time. There's a sucker born every minute!
                Yours, Steve
              • Gerry
                ... course, ... Say, Steve, have you ever tried reading Revelations while listening to the Beatles? Just kidding, but it does make a point that you can find
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Very true. It's amazing how easily people buy into it. The book of
                  > Revelation continually says that the End is coming soon. At the end
                  > of the book it even has the Angel tell John not to seal up the
                  > scroll of prophesy because it would be happening so soon. This in
                  > contrast to the book of Daniel where the prophesy is sealed up
                  > because it was going to take a long time to be fulfilled. Of
                  course,
                  > John's vision was written down in the 1st century and "soon" can
                  > hardly mean 2000 years in the future! But fundamentalists continue
                  > to try to apply it to our time. There's a sucker born every minute!
                  > Yours, Steve


                  Say, Steve, have you ever tried reading Revelations while listening
                  to the Beatles? Just kidding, but it does make a point that you can
                  find extremists of all sorts who can come up with bizarre
                  interpretations.

                  As for apocalyptic groups that seem to continually rationalize
                  pushing back the date for their "end of times," it seems odd that if
                  the meaning of the seals had been correctly prophesied in the first
                  place that their god should have such a tough time keeping an
                  appointment. You'd think after being stood-up the first time by the
                  Horsemen, they'd reassess their interpretation, but such a mindset
                  doesn't much allow for that kind of thinking.

                  Still, I suppose it's better if such a group kept those thoughts to
                  themselves rather than interpret any hitches in God's alleged plan as
                  an open invitation for them to go Helter-Skelter on the rest of the
                  world.

                  Gerry
                • walkinginclogs@aol.com
                  I think so. Dreams are merely a hodge-podge of experiences we had, usually that day. The Seventh Day Adventists base a lot of their doctrine on an Ellen
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                    I think so. Dreams are merely a hodge-podge of experiences we had, usually
                    that day. The Seventh Day Adventists base a lot of their doctrine on an Ellen
                    White who said she had a vision. In this vision she said that she was told
                    not to eat meat. The Adventists then concluded that God said that you must not
                    eat meat.

                    Others said that after she died they found books in her home written by some
                    doctor which advocated a vegetarian diet. So I think that she was merely
                    dreaming about what she read in those books. But ardent followers would like to
                    believe that God told her all those things. When I was a teenager I used to
                    think that dreams had some kind of significance because Freud said so. But all
                    the literature that I have come across written by the psychiatric world seem to
                    agree that dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over our experiences of
                    the past day.
                  • pessy@chez.com
                    ... those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues, one can t trust them in any sense. Klaus Schilling
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                      walkinginclogs@... writes:
                      > But all the literature that I have come across
                      > written by the psychiatric world

                      those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues,
                      one can't trust them in any sense.

                      Klaus Schilling
                    • lady_caritas
                      ... Well, to say that dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over our experiences of the past day does seems to be a rather constricted view of this
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pessy@c... wrote:
                        > walkinginclogs@a... writes:
                        > > But all the literature that I have come across
                        > > written by the psychiatric world
                        >
                        > those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues,
                        > one can't trust them in any sense.
                        >
                        > Klaus Schilling


                        Well, to say that "dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over
                        our experiences of the past day" does seems to be a rather
                        constricted view of this phenomenon.

                        Cwbyspike, if you're able to get hold of a copy of this back issue of
                        _Gnosis_, Winter, 1992, you'll find a variety of articles devoted to
                        the subject of dreams:

                        http://www.lumen.org/issue_contents/contents22.html

                        Yes, this issue is over a decade old, but the articles still have
                        relevance IMO.

                        Editor Richard Smoley introduces this issue with an article
                        entitled, "Are Dreams for Real?"

                        From the article:
                        "One of the main objections to the reality of the dream world is the
                        belief, stated or unstated, that somehow the mind is the brain, that
                        our dreams (as well as our waking thoughts and emotions) are just
                        byproducts of neural events. The latest theory along these lines
                        comes from Harvard psychiatrist Allan Hobson. Dreaming, he says, is
                        caused by the brain's random emission of electrochemical
                        signals. `The dreaming brain automatically generates a barrage of
                        symbols that we do our best to assemble into a coherent
                        story….Dreaming is not triggered by daily events that resurrect
                        buried memories but is a process as automatic as breathing.' Dreams,
                        then, would be some sort of nervous discharge, our synapses firing
                        out their tensions each night like crazed hicks shooting at road
                        signs.

                        "Personally I don't have the sort of expertise that could confirm or
                        refute Hobson's view. Yet (at least as presented in the popular
                        press) it appears to come down to the same form of materialistic
                        reductionism that has been weighed and found wanting so many times
                        before. As philosopher Thomas Nagel has pointed out in a brief but
                        influential essay entitled `What Is It Like to Be a Bat?', our
                        neurological knowledge (even if it's right) tells us little or
                        nothing about what it is to be an experiencing subject. Nagel uses
                        the example of bats, who, being proverbially blind, don't see as we
                        see, but perceive by bouncing a form of sonar off objects. Even
                        though we know a fair amount about the mechanism of sonar, none of
                        this, Nagel argues, tells us what it's like _subjectively_ to be a
                        bat; we just don't have any sense that's close enough to sonar to
                        help us conceive of that experience. Similarly, theories like
                        Hobson's may tell us what's happening at the physiological level, but
                        they don't enlighten us much about what it is to be a dreaming
                        subject.

                        "This is an important point for two reasons. In the first place, the
                        materialistic view doesn't account for all the information: if I
                        dream, part of the data is my experience as a subject. Neurology can
                        tell me about myself as a functioning physical object, but it can't
                        tell me much about my subjective experience (much less anyone
                        else's); reductionistic theories thus don't account for all the
                        data. In the second place, they don't tell us what all this complex
                        cognitive apparatus is _for_. Even if Hobson is right and dreaming
                        is a cleansing of various neural mechanisms, why are these mechanisms
                        functioning to begin with? It's like saying the purpose of an
                        automobile is to have the oil changed.

                        "As a way to dealing with these problems, we could say that on the
                        one hand there is a perspective that views things as objects, from
                        the exterior, as a scientist observes someone in a sleep lab. There
                        is also a perspective that sees things subjectively, from within, as
                        the dreamer himself would experience the same situation. This second
                        perspective would be the realm known variously as the `dream world,'
                        the `astral world,' the `Dreaming' (to Australian aborigines), or
                        Yetzirah (to kabbalists). It interpenetrates with the physical world—
                        just as a dream is both a physiological event and a subjective
                        experience—but is not identical to it."


                        Cari
                      • Mike Leavitt
                        Hello lady_caritas ... Well as some sort of Shaman put it, there are big dreams, and little ones. Most of us don t have the big ones often, but then even the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                          Hello lady_caritas

                          On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:

                          > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pessy@c... wrote:
                          >> walkinginclogs@a... writes:
                          >> > But all the literature that I have come across
                          >> > written by the psychiatric world
                          >>
                          >> those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues,
                          >> one can't trust them in any sense.
                          >>
                          >> Klaus Schilling
                          >
                          >
                          > Well, to say that "dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over
                          > our experiences of the past day" does seems to be a rather
                          > constricted view of this phenomenon.
                          >
                          > Cwbyspike, if you're able to get hold of a copy of this back issue
                          > of _Gnosis_, Winter, 1992, you'll find a variety of articles devoted
                          > to the subject of dreams:
                          >
                          > http://www.lumen.org/issue_contents/contents22.html
                          >
                          > Yes, this issue is over a decade old, but the articles still have
                          > relevance IMO.
                          >
                          > Editor Richard Smoley introduces this issue with an article
                          > entitled, "Are Dreams for Real?"
                          >
                          >> From the article:
                          > "One of the main objections to the reality of the dream world is the
                          > belief, stated or unstated, that somehow the mind is the brain, that
                          > our dreams (as well as our waking thoughts and emotions) are just
                          > byproducts of neural events. The latest theory along these lines
                          > comes from Harvard psychiatrist Allan Hobson. Dreaming, he says, is
                          > caused by the brain's random emission of electrochemical signals.
                          > `The dreaming brain automatically generates a barrage of symbols
                          > that we do our best to assemble into a coherent story .Dreaming is
                          > not triggered by daily events that resurrect buried memories but is
                          > a process as automatic as breathing.' Dreams, then, would be some
                          > sort of nervous discharge, our synapses firing out their tensions
                          > each night like crazed hicks shooting at road signs.
                          >
                          > "Personally I don't have the sort of expertise that could confirm or
                          > refute Hobson's view. Yet (at least as presented in the popular
                          > press) it appears to come down to the same form of materialistic
                          > reductionism that has been weighed and found wanting so many times
                          > before. As philosopher Thomas Nagel has pointed out in a brief but
                          > influential essay entitled `What Is It Like to Be a Bat?', our
                          > neurological knowledge (even if it's right) tells us little or
                          > nothing about what it is to be an experiencing subject. Nagel uses
                          > the example of bats, who, being proverbially blind, don't see as we
                          > see, but perceive by bouncing a form of sonar off objects. Even
                          > though we know a fair amount about the mechanism of sonar, none of
                          > this, Nagel argues, tells us what it's like _subjectively_ to be a
                          > bat; we just don't have any sense that's close enough to sonar to
                          > help us conceive of that experience. Similarly, theories like
                          > Hobson's may tell us what's happening at the physiological level,
                          > but they don't enlighten us much about what it is to be a dreaming
                          > subject.
                          >
                          > "This is an important point for two reasons. In the first place, the
                          > materialistic view doesn't account for all the information: if I
                          > dream, part of the data is my experience as a subject. Neurology can
                          > tell me about myself as a functioning physical object, but it can't
                          > tell me much about my subjective experience (much less anyone
                          > else's); reductionistic theories thus don't account for all the
                          > data. In the second place, they don't tell us what all this complex
                          > cognitive apparatus is _for_. Even if Hobson is right and dreaming
                          > is a cleansing of various neural mechanisms, why are these
                          > mechanisms functioning to begin with? It's like saying the purpose
                          > of an automobile is to have the oil changed.
                          >
                          > "As a way to dealing with these problems, we could say that on the
                          > one hand there is a perspective that views things as objects, from
                          > the exterior, as a scientist observes someone in a sleep lab. There
                          > is also a perspective that sees things subjectively, from within, as
                          > the dreamer himself would experience the same situation. This second
                          > perspective would be the realm known variously as the `dream world,'
                          > the `astral world,' the `Dreaming' (to Australian aborigines), or
                          > Yetzirah (to kabbalists). It interpenetrates with the physical world
                          > just as a dream is both a physiological event and a subjective
                          > experience but is not identical to it."
                          >
                          >
                          > Cari

                          Well as some sort of Shaman put it, there are big dreams, and little
                          ones. Most of us don't have the big ones often, but then even the
                          little ones can have meaning.

                          Regards
                          --
                          Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                        • Barbara Jebenstreit
                          ... as mana, ... chance does ... might be ... they aired some ... Exodus was a ... I don t (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I know that
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                            > Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance such
                            as mana,
                            > there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                            chance does
                            > anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered, there
                            might be
                            > such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                            they aired some
                            > program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                            Exodus was a
                            > fairy tale, and never happened.


                            I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I know
                            that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened, though
                            the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is thought
                            to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would excrete
                            some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the night. Until
                            morning, the substance had dried to a solid form, like dry snowflakes
                            which the Isrealites then collected.

                            Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                            welcome and the reading suggestions. :)

                            Greetings,
                            Barbara
                          • walkinginclogs@aol.com
                            Thank you for the manna info. Very interesting.
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                              Thank you for the manna info. Very interesting.
                            • Mike Leavitt
                              Hello Barbara ... Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                                Hello Barbara

                                On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:

                                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                                >> Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance such
                                > as mana,
                                >> there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                                > chance does
                                >> anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered, there
                                > might be
                                >> such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                                > they aired some
                                >> program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                                > Exodus was a
                                >> fairy tale, and never happened.
                                >
                                >
                                > I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I know
                                > that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened, though
                                > the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is thought
                                > to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would excrete
                                > some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the night. Until
                                > morning, the substance had dried to a solid form, like dry
                                > snowflakes which the Isrealites then collected.
                                >
                                > Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                                > welcome and the reading suggestions. :)
                                >
                                > Greetings,
                                > Barbara

                                Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-)

                                Regards
                                --
                                Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                              • lady_caritas
                                ... such ... there ... know ... though ... thought ... Well, y all got me interested, and I found this webpage supporting Barbara s explanation (the scientific
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
                                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                                  > Hello Barbara
                                  >
                                  > On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                                  > >> Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance
                                  such
                                  > > as mana,
                                  > >> there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                                  > > chance does
                                  > >> anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered,
                                  there
                                  > > might be
                                  > >> such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                                  > > they aired some
                                  > >> program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                                  > > Exodus was a
                                  > >> fairy tale, and never happened.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I
                                  know
                                  > > that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened,
                                  though
                                  > > the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is
                                  thought
                                  > > to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would excrete
                                  > > some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the night. Until
                                  > > morning, the substance had dried to a solid form, like dry
                                  > > snowflakes which the Isrealites then collected.
                                  > >
                                  > > Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                                  > > welcome and the reading suggestions. :)
                                  > >
                                  > > Greetings,
                                  > > Barbara
                                  >
                                  > Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-)
                                  >
                                  > Regards
                                  > --
                                  > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


                                  Well, y'all got me interested, and I found this webpage supporting
                                  Barbara's explanation (the scientific explanation is about 3/4 down
                                  the page):

                                  http://www.jhom.com/topics/bread/manna.html


                                  Cari
                                • Mike Leavitt
                                  Hello lady_caritas ... And it confirms the bug dung too. :-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 9, 2003
                                    Hello lady_caritas

                                    On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:

                                    > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                                    >> Hello Barbara
                                    >>
                                    >> On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                                    >>>> Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance
                                    > such
                                    >>> as mana,
                                    >> >> there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                                    >>> chance does
                                    >>>> anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered,
                                    > there
                                    >>> might be
                                    >> >> such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                                    >>> they aired some
                                    >> >> program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                                    >>> Exodus was a
                                    >>>> fairy tale, and never happened.
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I
                                    > know
                                    >>> that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened,
                                    > though
                                    >>> the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is
                                    > thought
                                    >> > to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would
                                    >> > excrete some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the
                                    >> > night. Until morning, the substance had dried to a solid form,
                                    >> > like dry snowflakes which the Isrealites then collected.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                                    >> > welcome and the reading suggestions. :)
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Greetings,
                                    >> > Barbara
                                    >>
                                    >> Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-)
                                    >>
                                    >> Regards
                                    >> --
                                    >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Well, y'all got me interested, and I found this webpage supporting
                                    > Barbara's explanation (the scientific explanation is about 3/4 down
                                    > the page):
                                    >
                                    > http://www.jhom.com/topics/bread/manna.html
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Cari

                                    And it confirms the bug dung too. :-)

                                    Regards
                                    --
                                    Mike Leavitt ac998@...
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