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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Beans, Manna from Heaven

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  • walkinginclogs@aol.com
    Could it be that they didn t intend to, but later man tried to make their fiction into history? I m not saying this happened, but I m just posing that
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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      Could it be that they didn't intend to, but later man tried to make their
      fiction into history? I'm not saying this happened, but I'm just posing that
      possibility for further consideration.
    • Steve
      ... make their ... posing that ... I really don t think that any ancient author ever intended to write history in the modern sense of the word. It was either
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
        > Could it be that they didn't intend to, but later man tried to
        make their
        > fiction into history? I'm not saying this happened, but I'm just
        posing that
        > possibility for further consideration.

        I really don't think that any ancient author ever intended to write
        history in the modern sense of the word. It was either myth-with-a-
        meaning or propaganda for their group. Unfortunately, many people
        today don't realize that much of what passes for history today also
        falls into those two catagories. Yours, Steve
      • Mike Leavitt
        Hello walkinginclogs@aol.com ... I think that is exactly what happened with the four canonical Gospels. The Orthodox church fathers turned myth into history.
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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          Hello walkinginclogs@...

          On 07-Jun-03, you wrote:

          > Could it be that they didn't intend to, but later man tried to make
          > their fiction into history? I'm not saying this happened, but I'm
          > just posing that possibility for further consideration.

          I think that is exactly what happened with the four canonical Gospels.
          The Orthodox church fathers turned myth into history. That is what
          these hell fire TV preatures are trying to do with Revelations (of
          St. John) all the time. Even the early church fathers knew better
          than to try that.

          Regards
          --
          Mike Leavitt ac998@...
        • Mike Leavitt
          Hello Steve ... Ah, better yet, propaganda posing as history. Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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            Hello Steve

            On 07-Jun-03, you wrote:

            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
            >> Could it be that they didn't intend to, but later man tried to
            > make their
            >> fiction into history? I'm not saying this happened, but I'm just
            > posing that
            >> possibility for further consideration.
            >
            > I really don't think that any ancient author ever intended to write
            > history in the modern sense of the word. It was either myth-with-a-
            > meaning or propaganda for their group. Unfortunately, many people
            > today don't realize that much of what passes for history today also
            > falls into those two catagories. Yours, Steve

            Ah, better yet, propaganda posing as history.

            Regards
            --
            Mike Leavitt ac998@...
          • walkinginclogs@aol.com
            So true. Revelation forcast various wars which then took place soon after. Everything that it predicted, has already taken place. And yes, I can t possibly
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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              So true. Revelation forcast various wars which then took place soon after.
              Everything that it predicted, has already taken place. And yes, I can't
              possibly see how those fundamentalists could possibly believe that the fall of
              Babalyon is yet to come. If they believe that, they should go over there and look
              at the ruins. They say those things because it sells their religion. Join
              our church. We will SAVE you. Send us all your money, the world is about to
              end. One time I asked one of them why give it to you if the world is about to
              end. You can't use it either.

              Then too, I think that they might have written Revelation after it already
              happened. I remember Jean Dixon when she was still alive, never predicted the
              Gulf War. But she did predict that they would excavate Babylon, which was
              true. The only thing was that they had already started digging before she made
              the prediction!!
            • walkinginclogs@aol.com
              I heard about some guy who sent out 5,000 letters to investers, predicting that a certain stock would go up. Then he sent another 5,000 letters to other
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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                I heard about some guy who sent out 5,000 letters to investers, predicting
                that a certain stock would go up. Then he sent another 5,000 letters to other
                people, predicting that that same stock would go down.

                The stock went up, so he dropped the 5,000 people from his mailing list whom
                he had predicted incorrectly. Then he sent another prediction out to those
                remaining. To 2,500 he predicted a certain other stock to go up. To the other
                half he predicted it would go down. The stock went down, so he dropped the
                2,500 whom he had predicted incorrectly. Those remaining are starting to
                anxiously await his next prediction, because to the, he has been right twice in a
                row.

                He keeps doing this until he narrows his list down to 50 people, then he
                sells these 50 some worthless stock in a mining company. Even the apostles
                believed that Christ's second coming was soon. The people who have been let down
                are now dead, and another generation of suckers are born.
              • Steve
                ... soon after. ... can t ... the fall of ... over there and look ... religion. Join ... is about to ... is about to ... already ... predicted the ... which
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                  > So true. Revelation forcast various wars which then took place
                  soon after.
                  > Everything that it predicted, has already taken place. And yes, I
                  can't
                  > possibly see how those fundamentalists could possibly believe that
                  the fall of
                  > Babalyon is yet to come. If they believe that, they should go
                  over there and look
                  > at the ruins. They say those things because it sells their
                  religion. Join
                  > our church. We will SAVE you. Send us all your money, the world
                  is about to
                  > end. One time I asked one of them why give it to you if the world
                  is about to
                  > end. You can't use it either.
                  >
                  > Then too, I think that they might have written Revelation after it
                  already
                  > happened. I remember Jean Dixon when she was still alive, never
                  predicted the
                  > Gulf War. But she did predict that they would excavate Babylon,
                  which was
                  > true. The only thing was that they had already started digging
                  before she made
                  > the prediction!!

                  This may sound surprising, but I think that much of the vision of
                  John the Elder in the book of Revelation was written after the fact
                  and referred to phenomena associated with the eruption of Vesuvius
                  in 79 A.D. Dio Cassius described the volcanic eruption using
                  language highly similar to John's description of the seal judgements
                  and trumpet judgements. Dio Cassius spoke of mountains being thrown
                  into the sea, hills leaping about during the terrible earthquakes
                  that accompanied the eruption. He spoke of the streams and bodies of
                  water being poisoned for many miles around by the volcanic ash,
                  killing large numbers of fish, fowl and wildlife. He said that the
                  dark clouds extended as far as Rome, Egypt and Syria, blotting out
                  the sun and plunging the land in darkness like night. He also said
                  that the eruption was accompanied by one of the worst outbreaks of
                  plague that the ancient world had ever seen [probably from the
                  poisonous ash] causing terrible sores to break out on the skin.
                  Amazingly, he even said that the eruption produced a loud noise like
                  a trumpet being blown! I suspect that early christians saw the
                  eruption of Vessuvius as being a sign of the End-Time, and that is
                  why John incorporated it into his "vision". I believe that the four
                  horsemen of the Apocalypse referred to the destruction of Jerusalem
                  in 70 A.D. The first rider who "rode forth to conquer" and
                  was "given a crown" was, in my opinion Titus who rode forth against
                  and conquered Jerusalem and was crowned emperor after Vespassion.
                  the other four horsemen refer to the war, the famine accompanying it
                  and the prisoners being thrown to the wild beasts in the arena in
                  rome after the war. Of course, John wrote about all this after the
                  fact, but injected it into his vision for the edification of his
                  followers. Just my opinion. Yours, Steve
                • Steve
                  ... predicting ... letters to other ... list whom ... to those ... To the other ... dropped the ... starting to ... right twice in a ... then he ... the
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 7, 2003
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                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                    > I heard about some guy who sent out 5,000 letters to investers,
                    predicting
                    > that a certain stock would go up. Then he sent another 5,000
                    letters to other
                    > people, predicting that that same stock would go down.
                    >
                    > The stock went up, so he dropped the 5,000 people from his mailing
                    list whom
                    > he had predicted incorrectly. Then he sent another prediction out
                    to those
                    > remaining. To 2,500 he predicted a certain other stock to go up.
                    To the other
                    > half he predicted it would go down. The stock went down, so he
                    dropped the
                    > 2,500 whom he had predicted incorrectly. Those remaining are
                    starting to
                    > anxiously await his next prediction, because to the, he has been
                    right twice in a
                    > row.
                    >
                    > He keeps doing this until he narrows his list down to 50 people,
                    then he
                    > sells these 50 some worthless stock in a mining company. Even
                    the apostles
                    > believed that Christ's second coming was soon. The people who
                    have been let down
                    > are now dead, and another generation of suckers are born.

                    Very true. It's amazing how easily people buy into it. The book of
                    Revelation continually says that the End is coming soon. At the end
                    of the book it even has the Angel tell John not to seal up the
                    scroll of prophesy because it would be happening so soon. This in
                    contrast to the book of Daniel where the prophesy is sealed up
                    because it was going to take a long time to be fulfilled. Of course,
                    John's vision was written down in the 1st century and "soon" can
                    hardly mean 2000 years in the future! But fundamentalists continue
                    to try to apply it to our time. There's a sucker born every minute!
                    Yours, Steve
                  • Gerry
                    ... course, ... Say, Steve, have you ever tried reading Revelations while listening to the Beatles? Just kidding, but it does make a point that you can find
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Very true. It's amazing how easily people buy into it. The book of
                      > Revelation continually says that the End is coming soon. At the end
                      > of the book it even has the Angel tell John not to seal up the
                      > scroll of prophesy because it would be happening so soon. This in
                      > contrast to the book of Daniel where the prophesy is sealed up
                      > because it was going to take a long time to be fulfilled. Of
                      course,
                      > John's vision was written down in the 1st century and "soon" can
                      > hardly mean 2000 years in the future! But fundamentalists continue
                      > to try to apply it to our time. There's a sucker born every minute!
                      > Yours, Steve


                      Say, Steve, have you ever tried reading Revelations while listening
                      to the Beatles? Just kidding, but it does make a point that you can
                      find extremists of all sorts who can come up with bizarre
                      interpretations.

                      As for apocalyptic groups that seem to continually rationalize
                      pushing back the date for their "end of times," it seems odd that if
                      the meaning of the seals had been correctly prophesied in the first
                      place that their god should have such a tough time keeping an
                      appointment. You'd think after being stood-up the first time by the
                      Horsemen, they'd reassess their interpretation, but such a mindset
                      doesn't much allow for that kind of thinking.

                      Still, I suppose it's better if such a group kept those thoughts to
                      themselves rather than interpret any hitches in God's alleged plan as
                      an open invitation for them to go Helter-Skelter on the rest of the
                      world.

                      Gerry
                    • walkinginclogs@aol.com
                      I think so. Dreams are merely a hodge-podge of experiences we had, usually that day. The Seventh Day Adventists base a lot of their doctrine on an Ellen
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                        I think so. Dreams are merely a hodge-podge of experiences we had, usually
                        that day. The Seventh Day Adventists base a lot of their doctrine on an Ellen
                        White who said she had a vision. In this vision she said that she was told
                        not to eat meat. The Adventists then concluded that God said that you must not
                        eat meat.

                        Others said that after she died they found books in her home written by some
                        doctor which advocated a vegetarian diet. So I think that she was merely
                        dreaming about what she read in those books. But ardent followers would like to
                        believe that God told her all those things. When I was a teenager I used to
                        think that dreams had some kind of significance because Freud said so. But all
                        the literature that I have come across written by the psychiatric world seem to
                        agree that dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over our experiences of
                        the past day.
                      • pessy@chez.com
                        ... those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues, one can t trust them in any sense. Klaus Schilling
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                          walkinginclogs@... writes:
                          > But all the literature that I have come across
                          > written by the psychiatric world

                          those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues,
                          one can't trust them in any sense.

                          Klaus Schilling
                        • lady_caritas
                          ... Well, to say that dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over our experiences of the past day does seems to be a rather constricted view of this
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pessy@c... wrote:
                            > walkinginclogs@a... writes:
                            > > But all the literature that I have come across
                            > > written by the psychiatric world
                            >
                            > those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues,
                            > one can't trust them in any sense.
                            >
                            > Klaus Schilling


                            Well, to say that "dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over
                            our experiences of the past day" does seems to be a rather
                            constricted view of this phenomenon.

                            Cwbyspike, if you're able to get hold of a copy of this back issue of
                            _Gnosis_, Winter, 1992, you'll find a variety of articles devoted to
                            the subject of dreams:

                            http://www.lumen.org/issue_contents/contents22.html

                            Yes, this issue is over a decade old, but the articles still have
                            relevance IMO.

                            Editor Richard Smoley introduces this issue with an article
                            entitled, "Are Dreams for Real?"

                            From the article:
                            "One of the main objections to the reality of the dream world is the
                            belief, stated or unstated, that somehow the mind is the brain, that
                            our dreams (as well as our waking thoughts and emotions) are just
                            byproducts of neural events. The latest theory along these lines
                            comes from Harvard psychiatrist Allan Hobson. Dreaming, he says, is
                            caused by the brain's random emission of electrochemical
                            signals. `The dreaming brain automatically generates a barrage of
                            symbols that we do our best to assemble into a coherent
                            story….Dreaming is not triggered by daily events that resurrect
                            buried memories but is a process as automatic as breathing.' Dreams,
                            then, would be some sort of nervous discharge, our synapses firing
                            out their tensions each night like crazed hicks shooting at road
                            signs.

                            "Personally I don't have the sort of expertise that could confirm or
                            refute Hobson's view. Yet (at least as presented in the popular
                            press) it appears to come down to the same form of materialistic
                            reductionism that has been weighed and found wanting so many times
                            before. As philosopher Thomas Nagel has pointed out in a brief but
                            influential essay entitled `What Is It Like to Be a Bat?', our
                            neurological knowledge (even if it's right) tells us little or
                            nothing about what it is to be an experiencing subject. Nagel uses
                            the example of bats, who, being proverbially blind, don't see as we
                            see, but perceive by bouncing a form of sonar off objects. Even
                            though we know a fair amount about the mechanism of sonar, none of
                            this, Nagel argues, tells us what it's like _subjectively_ to be a
                            bat; we just don't have any sense that's close enough to sonar to
                            help us conceive of that experience. Similarly, theories like
                            Hobson's may tell us what's happening at the physiological level, but
                            they don't enlighten us much about what it is to be a dreaming
                            subject.

                            "This is an important point for two reasons. In the first place, the
                            materialistic view doesn't account for all the information: if I
                            dream, part of the data is my experience as a subject. Neurology can
                            tell me about myself as a functioning physical object, but it can't
                            tell me much about my subjective experience (much less anyone
                            else's); reductionistic theories thus don't account for all the
                            data. In the second place, they don't tell us what all this complex
                            cognitive apparatus is _for_. Even if Hobson is right and dreaming
                            is a cleansing of various neural mechanisms, why are these mechanisms
                            functioning to begin with? It's like saying the purpose of an
                            automobile is to have the oil changed.

                            "As a way to dealing with these problems, we could say that on the
                            one hand there is a perspective that views things as objects, from
                            the exterior, as a scientist observes someone in a sleep lab. There
                            is also a perspective that sees things subjectively, from within, as
                            the dreamer himself would experience the same situation. This second
                            perspective would be the realm known variously as the `dream world,'
                            the `astral world,' the `Dreaming' (to Australian aborigines), or
                            Yetzirah (to kabbalists). It interpenetrates with the physical world—
                            just as a dream is both a physiological event and a subjective
                            experience—but is not identical to it."


                            Cari
                          • Mike Leavitt
                            Hello lady_caritas ... Well as some sort of Shaman put it, there are big dreams, and little ones. Most of us don t have the big ones often, but then even the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                              Hello lady_caritas

                              On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:

                              > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pessy@c... wrote:
                              >> walkinginclogs@a... writes:
                              >> > But all the literature that I have come across
                              >> > written by the psychiatric world
                              >>
                              >> those authors are materialistic ignorants and kakogogues,
                              >> one can't trust them in any sense.
                              >>
                              >> Klaus Schilling
                              >
                              >
                              > Well, to say that "dreams are merely our subconscious hashing over
                              > our experiences of the past day" does seems to be a rather
                              > constricted view of this phenomenon.
                              >
                              > Cwbyspike, if you're able to get hold of a copy of this back issue
                              > of _Gnosis_, Winter, 1992, you'll find a variety of articles devoted
                              > to the subject of dreams:
                              >
                              > http://www.lumen.org/issue_contents/contents22.html
                              >
                              > Yes, this issue is over a decade old, but the articles still have
                              > relevance IMO.
                              >
                              > Editor Richard Smoley introduces this issue with an article
                              > entitled, "Are Dreams for Real?"
                              >
                              >> From the article:
                              > "One of the main objections to the reality of the dream world is the
                              > belief, stated or unstated, that somehow the mind is the brain, that
                              > our dreams (as well as our waking thoughts and emotions) are just
                              > byproducts of neural events. The latest theory along these lines
                              > comes from Harvard psychiatrist Allan Hobson. Dreaming, he says, is
                              > caused by the brain's random emission of electrochemical signals.
                              > `The dreaming brain automatically generates a barrage of symbols
                              > that we do our best to assemble into a coherent story .Dreaming is
                              > not triggered by daily events that resurrect buried memories but is
                              > a process as automatic as breathing.' Dreams, then, would be some
                              > sort of nervous discharge, our synapses firing out their tensions
                              > each night like crazed hicks shooting at road signs.
                              >
                              > "Personally I don't have the sort of expertise that could confirm or
                              > refute Hobson's view. Yet (at least as presented in the popular
                              > press) it appears to come down to the same form of materialistic
                              > reductionism that has been weighed and found wanting so many times
                              > before. As philosopher Thomas Nagel has pointed out in a brief but
                              > influential essay entitled `What Is It Like to Be a Bat?', our
                              > neurological knowledge (even if it's right) tells us little or
                              > nothing about what it is to be an experiencing subject. Nagel uses
                              > the example of bats, who, being proverbially blind, don't see as we
                              > see, but perceive by bouncing a form of sonar off objects. Even
                              > though we know a fair amount about the mechanism of sonar, none of
                              > this, Nagel argues, tells us what it's like _subjectively_ to be a
                              > bat; we just don't have any sense that's close enough to sonar to
                              > help us conceive of that experience. Similarly, theories like
                              > Hobson's may tell us what's happening at the physiological level,
                              > but they don't enlighten us much about what it is to be a dreaming
                              > subject.
                              >
                              > "This is an important point for two reasons. In the first place, the
                              > materialistic view doesn't account for all the information: if I
                              > dream, part of the data is my experience as a subject. Neurology can
                              > tell me about myself as a functioning physical object, but it can't
                              > tell me much about my subjective experience (much less anyone
                              > else's); reductionistic theories thus don't account for all the
                              > data. In the second place, they don't tell us what all this complex
                              > cognitive apparatus is _for_. Even if Hobson is right and dreaming
                              > is a cleansing of various neural mechanisms, why are these
                              > mechanisms functioning to begin with? It's like saying the purpose
                              > of an automobile is to have the oil changed.
                              >
                              > "As a way to dealing with these problems, we could say that on the
                              > one hand there is a perspective that views things as objects, from
                              > the exterior, as a scientist observes someone in a sleep lab. There
                              > is also a perspective that sees things subjectively, from within, as
                              > the dreamer himself would experience the same situation. This second
                              > perspective would be the realm known variously as the `dream world,'
                              > the `astral world,' the `Dreaming' (to Australian aborigines), or
                              > Yetzirah (to kabbalists). It interpenetrates with the physical world
                              > just as a dream is both a physiological event and a subjective
                              > experience but is not identical to it."
                              >
                              >
                              > Cari

                              Well as some sort of Shaman put it, there are big dreams, and little
                              ones. Most of us don't have the big ones often, but then even the
                              little ones can have meaning.

                              Regards
                              --
                              Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                            • Barbara Jebenstreit
                              ... as mana, ... chance does ... might be ... they aired some ... Exodus was a ... I don t (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I know that
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                                > Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance such
                                as mana,
                                > there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                                chance does
                                > anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered, there
                                might be
                                > such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                                they aired some
                                > program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                                Exodus was a
                                > fairy tale, and never happened.


                                I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I know
                                that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened, though
                                the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is thought
                                to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would excrete
                                some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the night. Until
                                morning, the substance had dried to a solid form, like dry snowflakes
                                which the Isrealites then collected.

                                Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                                welcome and the reading suggestions. :)

                                Greetings,
                                Barbara
                              • walkinginclogs@aol.com
                                Thank you for the manna info. Very interesting.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                                  Thank you for the manna info. Very interesting.
                                • Mike Leavitt
                                  Hello Barbara ... Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                                    Hello Barbara

                                    On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:

                                    > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                                    >> Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance such
                                    > as mana,
                                    >> there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                                    > chance does
                                    >> anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered, there
                                    > might be
                                    >> such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                                    > they aired some
                                    >> program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                                    > Exodus was a
                                    >> fairy tale, and never happened.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I know
                                    > that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened, though
                                    > the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is thought
                                    > to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would excrete
                                    > some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the night. Until
                                    > morning, the substance had dried to a solid form, like dry
                                    > snowflakes which the Isrealites then collected.
                                    >
                                    > Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                                    > welcome and the reading suggestions. :)
                                    >
                                    > Greetings,
                                    > Barbara

                                    Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-)

                                    Regards
                                    --
                                    Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                                  • lady_caritas
                                    ... such ... there ... know ... though ... thought ... Well, y all got me interested, and I found this webpage supporting Barbara s explanation (the scientific
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jun 8, 2003
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                                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                                      > Hello Barbara
                                      >
                                      > On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                                      > >> Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance
                                      such
                                      > > as mana,
                                      > >> there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                                      > > chance does
                                      > >> anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered,
                                      there
                                      > > might be
                                      > >> such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                                      > > they aired some
                                      > >> program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                                      > > Exodus was a
                                      > >> fairy tale, and never happened.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I
                                      know
                                      > > that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened,
                                      though
                                      > > the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is
                                      thought
                                      > > to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would excrete
                                      > > some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the night. Until
                                      > > morning, the substance had dried to a solid form, like dry
                                      > > snowflakes which the Isrealites then collected.
                                      > >
                                      > > Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                                      > > welcome and the reading suggestions. :)
                                      > >
                                      > > Greetings,
                                      > > Barbara
                                      >
                                      > Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-)
                                      >
                                      > Regards
                                      > --
                                      > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


                                      Well, y'all got me interested, and I found this webpage supporting
                                      Barbara's explanation (the scientific explanation is about 3/4 down
                                      the page):

                                      http://www.jhom.com/topics/bread/manna.html


                                      Cari
                                    • Mike Leavitt
                                      Hello lady_caritas ... And it confirms the bug dung too. :-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jun 9, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hello lady_caritas

                                        On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:

                                        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                                        >> Hello Barbara
                                        >>
                                        >> On 08-Jun-03, you wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, walkinginclogs@a... wrote:
                                        >>>> Speaking of manna. For every so-called supernatural occurrance
                                        > such
                                        >>> as mana,
                                        >> >> there seems to be a rational scientific explanation. So by any
                                        >>> chance does
                                        >>>> anyone know if in that region where the Isrealites wandered,
                                        > there
                                        >>> might be
                                        >> >> such a thing maybe as this manna even today? Of course on PBS
                                        >>> they aired some
                                        >> >> program in which some historians believe that the whole book of
                                        >>> Exodus was a
                                        >>>> fairy tale, and never happened.
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>> I don't (regretfully) recall when or where I heard it... but I
                                        > know
                                        >>> that some scientists believe that the Exodus indeed happened,
                                        > though
                                        >>> the somewhat differently than the Bible reports. "Manna" is
                                        > thought
                                        >> > to be the product of some kind of insect. The insect would
                                        >> > excrete some kind of carbonhydrate rich substance during the
                                        >> > night. Until morning, the substance had dried to a solid form,
                                        >> > like dry snowflakes which the Isrealites then collected.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Before I close this post, I want to thank you all for the warm
                                        >> > welcome and the reading suggestions. :)
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Greetings,
                                        >> > Barbara
                                        >>
                                        >> Leave it to science to transform Mana from Heaven to bug dung. :-)
                                        >>
                                        >> Regards
                                        >> --
                                        >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Well, y'all got me interested, and I found this webpage supporting
                                        > Barbara's explanation (the scientific explanation is about 3/4 down
                                        > the page):
                                        >
                                        > http://www.jhom.com/topics/bread/manna.html
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Cari

                                        And it confirms the bug dung too. :-)

                                        Regards
                                        --
                                        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
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