Re: Sethian Gnostic Baptism
- IMHO, I don't think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, enos benset <enosbnst@y...>
>transelated from Mandaic have, when done properly, been followed by an
> As for the Mandaean tradition, the reciting of the English stanza
experience of the Sublime alternative to sleep paralysis, a sort of lucid
dream with the voices of an angel or uthra, sublime being.
> The trick is to start with the most alienating sort of stanza aboutlonelyness, isolation, homesickness, dying ect. It's a sort of verbal
aceticism; raising up feelings of alienation.
> Then, once there is the self-realization that one does not belong to thecosmos with all its suffering and indifference, one can reach out and
petition the source of one's own being in spirit. One must call for an
answer from the source.
> In the Name of the first great Life, from worlds of Light; the SublimeOne that stands above all works.
> I am a Mana of the great Life, a Mana of the Mighty Life am I. A Mana Iam of the great Life: who has made me to live in the terrestrial world.
> In the tibil (dust?) who has made me to dwell, who has cast me into thebodily trunk? Who has cast me into the stump which has no hands nor
feet? It has no hands nor feet, and knows not how it should walk.It lies
there and crawls, and has no strength.
> Why did they call me from my place and bring me hither and cast meinto the stump?
> A Mana am I of the great Life; who has throm me into the sufferingworlds? Who has transported me to the evil darkness?
> So long I endure and dwell in the world, so long I dwell among the worksof my hands.
> Grief and war I suffer in the body garment into which they transportedand cast me. How often must I put it off; How often must I put it on; must
ever again settle my strife and not behold Life in Its Highest Habitation:
aworld of light without darkness, a world of mildness without rebellion, a
world of righteousness without decay and death, a world of goodness
> O How shall I rejoice then who am now afflicted and afraid in thedwelling of the evil ones? O How shall my heart rejoice outside the works
which I have made in this world?
> How long shall I wonder and how long sink within all the worlds?.....planter, no keeper, no mild helper to come and instruct me about
> A Vine am I, a lonely one that stands in the world. I have no sublime
> The seven opress me; the twelve became my persecution.stump. My heart which longs for the Life came here and was made part of
> The First Life has forgotten me; the second does not inquire after me.
> My eyes which were opened from the Place of Light, now belong to the
> My mind, a treasure in which the Life resides, has been housed here inbodily clothes.
> My feet were planted by chosen planters. Now they must wonder thepath of the stump.
> It is the path of the stump. The seven will not let me go my own way.To those who do belong here it is thus the strange, the unfamiliar and
> How must I obey?
> How must I endure?
> How must I quite my mind?....
> How must I hear the seven and the twelve mysteries?....
> How must I groan?
> How must my mild Paren't word dwell among the creatures of the dark?
> ALIEN CONCEPT IN GNOSTICISM
> The alien is that which stems from elsewhere and does not belong here.
incomprehensible; but their world on its part is just as incomprehensible
to the alien that comes to dwell here, and like a foreign land where it is far
from home. Then it suffers the lot of the stranger who is lonely,
unprotected, uncomprehended, and uncomprehending in a situation full
of danger. Anguish and homesickness are a part of the stranger's lot. The
stranger who does not know the ways of the foreign land wanders about
lost; if he learns its ways too well, he forgets that he is a stranger and
gets lost in a different sense by succumbing to the lure of the alien world
and becoming estranged from his own origin. Then he has become a "son
of the house." This too is part of the alien's fate. In his alienation from
himself the distress has gone, but this very fact is the culmination of the
stranger's tragedy. The recollection of his own alieness, the recognition
of his place of exile for what it is, is the first step back; the awakened
home sickness is the beginning of the return. All this belongs to the
"suffering" side of alienness. Yet with relation to its origin it is at the same
time a mark of excellence, a source of power and of a secret life unknown
to the environment and in the last resort impregnable to it, as it is
incomprehensible to the creatures of this world. This superiority of the
alien, which distinguishes it even here, though secretly, is its manifest
glory in its own native realm, which is outside this world. In such position
the alien is the remote, the inaccessible, and its strangeness means
majesty. Thus the alien taken absolutely is the wholly transcendent, the
"beyond" and an eminent attribute of God.
> ------ Hans Jonas "The Gnostic Religion"those wishing to pursue their own investigation, that additional
> Gerry <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
> Reply to post #7262 by Enos Benset:
> Ahhh, thank you for that, Enos. That wasn't so hard, was it?! ;-) For
information is surely more constructive than just dropping off an
apparent scriptural quotation without so much as a "hello or "how are you,
not to mention some sort of citation.
>find any startling revelations in Drower's work? Just wondering to what
> As we've really only had minimal discussion of Mandaeans here, did you
extent you'd recommend it to others.
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- --- In email@example.com, ernststrohregenmantelrad
> IMHO, I don't think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise.Ernst, would you care to expand on this statement?
- Hi Gerry, I've been busy.
Did you manage to rent The Saragossa Manuscript?
And try to find "No Such Thing" out on video/DVD late last year.
Also, can't remember if I mentioned Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
We've to do a gnostic music post sometime. We can start with David
Bowie and Ziggy Stardust.
One of these days I've got to compose my own Gnostic composition and
put it out there without attribution, just to see if it rocks any
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Gerry" <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
> --- In email@example.com, incognito_lightbringer
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Can you give a source for this? I enjoyed reading it and wondered
> > where you got it from. You titled it "Sethian Gnostic Baptism"
> > seemed like a composite of several gnostic texts. It paraphrases
> > parts of several Nag Hammadi codices such as Origin of the World
> > The Second Apocalypse of James and the Sophia of Jesus Christ and
> > on (I included these below). It was also similar to parts of
> > Sophia. There's probably more but those are the ones I recognized.
> Well hello there, Incognito. I wondered where you'd disappeared to.
> As for the seemingly paraphrased post, I think your instincts and
> research are probably right on target. Whenever something like
> is posted, with neither contextual commentary nor attribution of
> authorship, it's unlikely that you'll ever see a demonstration of
> provenance from classical sources.
> Considering the subject of this piece in particular, I'm reminded
> similar ones I've seen dumped at other sites which lead me to
> someone is interested in propagating an air of authenticity for
> own "Sethian Gnostic " compositions. When such a thing is posted
> here and there, forwarded elsewhere and inevitably referred back
> I suppose it eventually gets around to the point that the
> unquestioning take it as genuine. If that assessment is
> I'd love to see someone take responsibility for these works.
> BTW, I finally got around to taping _Vanilla Sky_ a few nights ago,
> but have been holding off on watching it 'til this weekendAm
> to have my eyes opened!
> P.S. I've been sitting here for a while doing my own sleuthing
> this question of yours, and now I see you've posted another
> specifically for me. Let me get back to you on that oneBreakfast
> is calling!