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Re: Sethian Gnostic Baptism

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  • ernststrohregenmantelrad
    IMHO, I don t think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise. ... transelated from Mandaic have, when done properly, been followed by an experience of the
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 12 10:27 PM
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      IMHO, I don't think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise.

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, enos benset <enosbnst@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > As for the Mandaean tradition, the reciting of the English stanza
      transelated from Mandaic have, when done properly, been followed by an
      experience of the Sublime alternative to sleep paralysis, a sort of lucid
      dream with the voices of an angel or uthra, sublime being.
      > The trick is to start with the most alienating sort of stanza about
      lonelyness, isolation, homesickness, dying ect. It's a sort of verbal
      aceticism; raising up feelings of alienation.
      > Then, once there is the self-realization that one does not belong to the
      cosmos with all its suffering and indifference, one can reach out and
      petition the source of one's own being in spirit. One must call for an
      answer from the source.
      > In the Name of the first great Life, from worlds of Light; the Sublime
      One that stands above all works.
      > I am a Mana of the great Life, a Mana of the Mighty Life am I. A Mana I
      am of the great Life: who has made me to live in the terrestrial world.
      > In the tibil (dust?) who has made me to dwell, who has cast me into the
      bodily trunk? Who has cast me into the stump which has no hands nor
      feet? It has no hands nor feet, and knows not how it should walk.It lies
      there and crawls, and has no strength.
      > Why did they call me from my place and bring me hither and cast me
      into the stump?
      > A Mana am I of the great Life; who has throm me into the suffering
      worlds? Who has transported me to the evil darkness?
      > So long I endure and dwell in the world, so long I dwell among the works
      of my hands.
      > Grief and war I suffer in the body garment into which they transported
      and cast me. How often must I put it off; How often must I put it on; must
      ever again settle my strife and not behold Life in Its Highest Habitation:
      aworld of light without darkness, a world of mildness without rebellion, a
      world of righteousness without decay and death, a world of goodness
      without evil.
      > O How shall I rejoice then who am now afflicted and afraid in the
      dwelling of the evil ones? O How shall my heart rejoice outside the works
      which I have made in this world?
      > How long shall I wonder and how long sink within all the worlds?.....
      > A Vine am I, a lonely one that stands in the world. I have no sublime
      planter, no keeper, no mild helper to come and instruct me about
      everything.
      > The seven opress me; the twelve became my persecution.
      > The First Life has forgotten me; the second does not inquire after me.
      > My eyes which were opened from the Place of Light, now belong to the
      stump. My heart which longs for the Life came here and was made part of
      the stump.
      > My mind, a treasure in which the Life resides, has been housed here in
      bodily clothes.
      > My feet were planted by chosen planters. Now they must wonder the
      path of the stump.
      > It is the path of the stump. The seven will not let me go my own way.
      > How must I obey?
      > How must I endure?
      > How must I quite my mind?....
      > How must I hear the seven and the twelve mysteries?....
      > How must I groan?
      > How must my mild Paren't word dwell among the creatures of the dark?
      >
      >
      > ALIEN CONCEPT IN GNOSTICISM
      > The alien is that which stems from elsewhere and does not belong here.
      To those who do belong here it is thus the strange, the unfamiliar and
      incomprehensible; but their world on its part is just as incomprehensible
      to the alien that comes to dwell here, and like a foreign land where it is far
      from home. Then it suffers the lot of the stranger who is lonely,
      unprotected, uncomprehended, and uncomprehending in a situation full
      of danger. Anguish and homesickness are a part of the stranger's lot. The
      stranger who does not know the ways of the foreign land wanders about
      lost; if he learns its ways too well, he forgets that he is a stranger and
      gets lost in a different sense by succumbing to the lure of the alien world
      and becoming estranged from his own origin. Then he has become a "son
      of the house." This too is part of the alien's fate. In his alienation from
      himself the distress has gone, but this very fact is the culmination of the
      stranger's tragedy. The recollection of his own alieness, the recognition
      of his place of exile for what it is, is the first step back; the awakened
      home sickness is the beginning of the return. All this belongs to the
      "suffering" side of alienness. Yet with relation to its origin it is at the same
      time a mark of excellence, a source of power and of a secret life unknown
      to the environment and in the last resort impregnable to it, as it is
      incomprehensible to the creatures of this world. This superiority of the
      alien, which distinguishes it even here, though secretly, is its manifest
      glory in its own native realm, which is outside this world. In such position
      the alien is the remote, the inaccessible, and its strangeness means
      majesty. Thus the alien taken absolutely is the wholly transcendent, the
      "beyond" and an eminent attribute of God.
      > ------ Hans Jonas "The Gnostic Religion"
      >
      >
      > Gerry <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Reply to post #7262 by Enos Benset:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Ahhh, thank you for that, Enos. That wasn't so hard, was it?! ;-) For
      those wishing to pursue their own investigation, that additional
      information is surely more constructive than just dropping off an
      apparent scriptural quotation without so much as a "hello or "how are you,
      not to mention some sort of citation.
      >
      >
      >
      > As we've really only had minimal discussion of Mandaeans here, did you
      find any startling revelations in Drower's work? Just wondering to what
      extent you'd recommend it to others.
      >
      >
      >
      > Gerry
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • lady_caritas
      ... Ernst, would you care to expand on this statement? Cari
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 13 9:00 PM
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, ernststrohregenmantelrad
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > IMHO, I don't think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise.


        Ernst, would you care to expand on this statement?

        Cari
      • incognito_lightbringer
        Hi Gerry, I ve been busy. Did you manage to rent The Saragossa Manuscript? And try to find No Such Thing out on video/DVD late last year. Also, can t
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 21 3:01 AM
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          Hi Gerry, I've been busy.
          Did you manage to rent The Saragossa Manuscript?
          And try to find "No Such Thing" out on video/DVD late last year.
          Also, can't remember if I mentioned Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
          We've to do a gnostic music post sometime. We can start with David
          Bowie and Ziggy Stardust.
          One of these days I've got to compose my own Gnostic composition and
          put it out there without attribution, just to see if it rocks any
          boats ;)

          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, incognito_lightbringer
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > Can you give a source for this? I enjoyed reading it and wondered
          > > where you got it from. You titled it "Sethian Gnostic Baptism"
          but
          > it
          > > seemed like a composite of several gnostic texts. It paraphrases
          > > parts of several Nag Hammadi codices such as Origin of the World
          > and
          > > The Second Apocalypse of James and the Sophia of Jesus Christ and
          > so
          > > on (I included these below). It was also similar to parts of
          Pistis
          > > Sophia. There's probably more but those are the ones I recognized.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Well hello there, Incognito. I wondered where you'd disappeared to.
          >
          > As for the seemingly paraphrased post, I think your instincts and
          > research are probably right on target. Whenever something like
          that
          > is posted, with neither contextual commentary nor attribution of
          > authorship, it's unlikely that you'll ever see a demonstration of
          its
          > provenance from classical sources.
          >
          > Considering the subject of this piece in particular, I'm reminded
          of
          > similar ones I've seen dumped at other sites which lead me to
          believe
          > someone is interested in propagating an air of authenticity for
          their
          > own "Sethian Gnostic…" compositions. When such a thing is posted
          > here and there, forwarded elsewhere and inevitably referred back
          to,
          > I suppose it eventually gets around to the point that the
          > unquestioning take it as genuine. If that assessment is
          inaccurate,
          > I'd love to see someone take responsibility for these works.
          >
          > BTW, I finally got around to taping _Vanilla Sky_ a few nights ago,
          > but have been holding off on watching it 'til this weekend——Am
          hoping
          > to have my eyes opened!
          >
          > Gerry
          >
          > P.S. I've been sitting here for a while doing my own sleuthing
          over
          > this question of yours, and now I see you've posted another
          > specifically for me. Let me get back to you on that one——Breakfast
          > is calling!
          >
          > Ger
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