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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Sethian Gnostic Baptism

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  • enos benset
    As for the Mandaean tradition, the reciting of the English stanza transelated from Mandaic have, when done properly, been followed by an experience of the
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 11, 2003
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      As for the Mandaean tradition, the reciting of the English stanza transelated from Mandaic have, when done properly, been followed by an experience of the Sublime alternative to sleep paralysis, a sort of lucid dream with the voices of an angel or uthra, sublime being.

      The trick is to start with the most alienating sort of stanza about lonelyness, isolation, homesickness, dying ect. It's a sort of verbal aceticism; raising up feelings of alienation.

      Then, once there is the self-realization that one does not belong to the cosmos with all its suffering and indifference, one can reach out and petition the source of one's own being in spirit. One must call for an answer from the source.

      In the Name of the first great Life, from worlds of Light; the Sublime One that stands above all works.
      I am a Mana of the great Life, a Mana of the Mighty Life am I. A Mana I am of the great Life: who has made me to live in the terrestrial world.
      In the tibil (dust?) who has made me to dwell, who has cast me into the bodily trunk? Who has cast me into the stump which has no hands nor feet? It has no hands nor feet, and knows not how it should walk.It lies there and crawls, and has no strength.
      Why did they call me from my place and bring me hither and cast me into the stump?
      A Mana am I of the great Life; who has throm me into the suffering worlds? Who has transported me to the evil darkness?
      So long I endure and dwell in the world, so long I dwell among the works of my hands.
      Grief and war I suffer in the body garment into which they transported and cast me. How often must I put it off; How often must I put it on; must ever again settle my strife and not behold Life in Its Highest Habitation: aworld of light without darkness, a world of mildness without rebellion, a world of righteousness without decay and death, a world of goodness without evil.
      O How shall I rejoice then who am now afflicted and afraid in the dwelling of the evil ones? O How shall my heart rejoice outside the works which I have made in this world?
      How long shall I wonder and how long sink within all the worlds?.....
      A Vine am I, a lonely one that stands in the world. I have no sublime planter, no keeper, no mild helper to come and instruct me about everything.
      The seven opress me; the twelve became my persecution.
      The First Life has forgotten me; the second does not inquire after me.
      My eyes which were opened from the Place of Light, now belong to the stump. My heart which longs for the Life came here and was made part of the stump.
      My mind, a treasure in which the Life resides, has been housed here in bodily clothes.
      My feet were planted by chosen planters. Now they must wonder the path of the stump.
      It is the path of the stump. The seven will not let me go my own way.
      How must I obey?
      How must I endure?
      How must I quite my mind?....
      How must I hear the seven and the twelve mysteries?....
      How must I groan?
      How must my mild Paren't word dwell among the creatures of the dark? 
       


      ALIEN CONCEPT IN GNOSTICISM

      The alien is that which stems from elsewhere and does not belong here. To those who do belong here it is thus the strange, the unfamiliar and incomprehensible; but their world on its part is just as incomprehensible to the alien that comes to dwell here, and like a foreign land where it is far from home. Then it suffers the lot of the stranger who is lonely, unprotected, uncomprehended, and uncomprehending in a situation full of danger. Anguish and homesickness are a part of the stranger�s lot. The stranger who does not know the ways of the foreign land wanders about lost; if he learns its ways too well, he forgets that he is a stranger and gets lost in a different sense by succumbing to the lure of the alien world and becoming estranged from his own origin. Then he has become a "son of the house." This too is part of the alien�s fate. In his alienation from himself the distress has gone, but this very fact is the culmination of the stranger�s tragedy. The recollection of his own alieness, the recognition of his place of exile for what it is, is the first step back; the awakened home sickness is the beginning of the return. All this belongs to the "suffering" side of alienness. Yet with relation to its origin it is at the same time a mark of excellence, a source of power and of a secret life unknown to the environment and in the last resort impregnable to it, as it is incomprehensible to the creatures of this world. This superiority of the alien, which distinguishes it even here, though secretly, is its manifest glory in its own native realm, which is outside this world. In such position the alien is the remote, the inaccessible, and its strangeness means majesty. Thus the alien taken absolutely is the wholly transcendent, the "beyond" and an eminent attribute of God.
      ------ Hans Jonas "The Gnostic Religion"

       Gerry <gerryhsp@...> wrote:

       

      Reply to post #7262 by Enos Benset:

       

       

      Ahhh, thank you for that, Enos.  That wasn�t so hard, was it?!  ;-)  For those wishing to pursue their own investigation, that additional information is surely more constructive than just dropping off an apparent scriptural quotation without so much as a �hello� or �how are you,� not to mention some sort of citation.

       

      As we�ve really only had minimal discussion of Mandaeans here, did you find any startling revelations in Drower�s work?  Just wondering to what extent you�d recommend it to others.

       

      Gerry

       

       



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    • ernststrohregenmantelrad
      IMHO, I don t think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise. ... transelated from Mandaic have, when done properly, been followed by an experience of the
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 12, 2003
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        IMHO, I don't think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise.

        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, enos benset <enosbnst@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > As for the Mandaean tradition, the reciting of the English stanza
        transelated from Mandaic have, when done properly, been followed by an
        experience of the Sublime alternative to sleep paralysis, a sort of lucid
        dream with the voices of an angel or uthra, sublime being.
        > The trick is to start with the most alienating sort of stanza about
        lonelyness, isolation, homesickness, dying ect. It's a sort of verbal
        aceticism; raising up feelings of alienation.
        > Then, once there is the self-realization that one does not belong to the
        cosmos with all its suffering and indifference, one can reach out and
        petition the source of one's own being in spirit. One must call for an
        answer from the source.
        > In the Name of the first great Life, from worlds of Light; the Sublime
        One that stands above all works.
        > I am a Mana of the great Life, a Mana of the Mighty Life am I. A Mana I
        am of the great Life: who has made me to live in the terrestrial world.
        > In the tibil (dust?) who has made me to dwell, who has cast me into the
        bodily trunk? Who has cast me into the stump which has no hands nor
        feet? It has no hands nor feet, and knows not how it should walk.It lies
        there and crawls, and has no strength.
        > Why did they call me from my place and bring me hither and cast me
        into the stump?
        > A Mana am I of the great Life; who has throm me into the suffering
        worlds? Who has transported me to the evil darkness?
        > So long I endure and dwell in the world, so long I dwell among the works
        of my hands.
        > Grief and war I suffer in the body garment into which they transported
        and cast me. How often must I put it off; How often must I put it on; must
        ever again settle my strife and not behold Life in Its Highest Habitation:
        aworld of light without darkness, a world of mildness without rebellion, a
        world of righteousness without decay and death, a world of goodness
        without evil.
        > O How shall I rejoice then who am now afflicted and afraid in the
        dwelling of the evil ones? O How shall my heart rejoice outside the works
        which I have made in this world?
        > How long shall I wonder and how long sink within all the worlds?.....
        > A Vine am I, a lonely one that stands in the world. I have no sublime
        planter, no keeper, no mild helper to come and instruct me about
        everything.
        > The seven opress me; the twelve became my persecution.
        > The First Life has forgotten me; the second does not inquire after me.
        > My eyes which were opened from the Place of Light, now belong to the
        stump. My heart which longs for the Life came here and was made part of
        the stump.
        > My mind, a treasure in which the Life resides, has been housed here in
        bodily clothes.
        > My feet were planted by chosen planters. Now they must wonder the
        path of the stump.
        > It is the path of the stump. The seven will not let me go my own way.
        > How must I obey?
        > How must I endure?
        > How must I quite my mind?....
        > How must I hear the seven and the twelve mysteries?....
        > How must I groan?
        > How must my mild Paren't word dwell among the creatures of the dark?
        >
        >
        > ALIEN CONCEPT IN GNOSTICISM
        > The alien is that which stems from elsewhere and does not belong here.
        To those who do belong here it is thus the strange, the unfamiliar and
        incomprehensible; but their world on its part is just as incomprehensible
        to the alien that comes to dwell here, and like a foreign land where it is far
        from home. Then it suffers the lot of the stranger who is lonely,
        unprotected, uncomprehended, and uncomprehending in a situation full
        of danger. Anguish and homesickness are a part of the stranger's lot. The
        stranger who does not know the ways of the foreign land wanders about
        lost; if he learns its ways too well, he forgets that he is a stranger and
        gets lost in a different sense by succumbing to the lure of the alien world
        and becoming estranged from his own origin. Then he has become a "son
        of the house." This too is part of the alien's fate. In his alienation from
        himself the distress has gone, but this very fact is the culmination of the
        stranger's tragedy. The recollection of his own alieness, the recognition
        of his place of exile for what it is, is the first step back; the awakened
        home sickness is the beginning of the return. All this belongs to the
        "suffering" side of alienness. Yet with relation to its origin it is at the same
        time a mark of excellence, a source of power and of a secret life unknown
        to the environment and in the last resort impregnable to it, as it is
        incomprehensible to the creatures of this world. This superiority of the
        alien, which distinguishes it even here, though secretly, is its manifest
        glory in its own native realm, which is outside this world. In such position
        the alien is the remote, the inaccessible, and its strangeness means
        majesty. Thus the alien taken absolutely is the wholly transcendent, the
        "beyond" and an eminent attribute of God.
        > ------ Hans Jonas "The Gnostic Religion"
        >
        >
        > Gerry <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Reply to post #7262 by Enos Benset:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Ahhh, thank you for that, Enos. That wasn't so hard, was it?! ;-) For
        those wishing to pursue their own investigation, that additional
        information is surely more constructive than just dropping off an
        apparent scriptural quotation without so much as a "hello or "how are you,
        not to mention some sort of citation.
        >
        >
        >
        > As we've really only had minimal discussion of Mandaeans here, did you
        find any startling revelations in Drower's work? Just wondering to what
        extent you'd recommend it to others.
        >
        >
        >
        > Gerry
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • lady_caritas
        ... Ernst, would you care to expand on this statement? Cari
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 13, 2003
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, ernststrohregenmantelrad
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > IMHO, I don't think Mandeanas are Gnostics in the present guise.


          Ernst, would you care to expand on this statement?

          Cari
        • incognito_lightbringer
          Hi Gerry, I ve been busy. Did you manage to rent The Saragossa Manuscript? And try to find No Such Thing out on video/DVD late last year. Also, can t
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 21, 2003
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            Hi Gerry, I've been busy.
            Did you manage to rent The Saragossa Manuscript?
            And try to find "No Such Thing" out on video/DVD late last year.
            Also, can't remember if I mentioned Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
            We've to do a gnostic music post sometime. We can start with David
            Bowie and Ziggy Stardust.
            One of these days I've got to compose my own Gnostic composition and
            put it out there without attribution, just to see if it rocks any
            boats ;)

            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, incognito_lightbringer
            > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > Can you give a source for this? I enjoyed reading it and wondered
            > > where you got it from. You titled it "Sethian Gnostic Baptism"
            but
            > it
            > > seemed like a composite of several gnostic texts. It paraphrases
            > > parts of several Nag Hammadi codices such as Origin of the World
            > and
            > > The Second Apocalypse of James and the Sophia of Jesus Christ and
            > so
            > > on (I included these below). It was also similar to parts of
            Pistis
            > > Sophia. There's probably more but those are the ones I recognized.
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Well hello there, Incognito. I wondered where you'd disappeared to.
            >
            > As for the seemingly paraphrased post, I think your instincts and
            > research are probably right on target. Whenever something like
            that
            > is posted, with neither contextual commentary nor attribution of
            > authorship, it's unlikely that you'll ever see a demonstration of
            its
            > provenance from classical sources.
            >
            > Considering the subject of this piece in particular, I'm reminded
            of
            > similar ones I've seen dumped at other sites which lead me to
            believe
            > someone is interested in propagating an air of authenticity for
            their
            > own "Sethian Gnostic…" compositions. When such a thing is posted
            > here and there, forwarded elsewhere and inevitably referred back
            to,
            > I suppose it eventually gets around to the point that the
            > unquestioning take it as genuine. If that assessment is
            inaccurate,
            > I'd love to see someone take responsibility for these works.
            >
            > BTW, I finally got around to taping _Vanilla Sky_ a few nights ago,
            > but have been holding off on watching it 'til this weekend——Am
            hoping
            > to have my eyes opened!
            >
            > Gerry
            >
            > P.S. I've been sitting here for a while doing my own sleuthing
            over
            > this question of yours, and now I see you've posted another
            > specifically for me. Let me get back to you on that one——Breakfast
            > is calling!
            >
            > Ger
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