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Re: What is life?

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  • pmcvflag
    ... I have not read this book Klaus, too bad it is not in English (I venture to guess that few of our members speak German fluently, I do not for sure). I have
    Message 1 of 34 , Jan 31, 2003
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      > K. Dietzfelbinger wrote about Schopenhauer in his book
      > "Schopenhauers Vermaechtnis" (Legacy of Schopenhauer).
      > Dietzfelbinger also wrote comments on many NHL texts in 4 books.
      > His conclusions on the NHL texts and on Schopenhauer are
      > quite similar in essence.

      I have not read this book Klaus, too bad it is not in English (I
      venture to guess that few of our members speak German fluently, I do
      not for sure). I have however read treatments of this sort concerning
      other philosophers. I once read a whole book outlining supposed
      similarities between Marx and Gnosticism. In fact, most of the
      similarities were entirely incedental (not to mention historically
      innacurate in it's understanding of "Gnosticism"), and I would say
      that the same is true with such a comparison with Schopenhauer (I
      have read Schopenhauer BTW, and I am sypathetic... especially
      concerning his oppinions on art). Of course, Schopenhauer did have an
      interest in some Classical philosophers, so it is no surprise that
      there are going to be some similarities, however, the fact remains,
      Schopenhauer was not "Gnostic". Schopenhauer himself saw his
      philosophy as having much more in common with eastern religion, which
      is in some wasy the exact opposite of Gnosticism.

      > In my postings, Schopenhauer is used just to explain the role of
      world denunciation, which is not a typically Gnostic one, but an
      important aspect in some forms of Gnosticism, especially that of the
      Testimonium Veritatis.<

      Thank you Kraus, that is indeed more to the point. The Tesimony of
      truth is indeed very ascetic, and is yet another observation of the
      probibility that most Gnosticism was not. In fact, this direct
      statement of asceticism is rare.

      > Encratism is alien to classical Judaism, thus its origins must be
      elsewhere, best bet are the Indian religions. Also the more
      ascetic/contemplative Esseni borrowed implicitely from India.<

      I find that very improbable. More likely is the simple Hellenization
      that Judism had been exposed to. This was a very common Roman
      attitude.

      > The shortcomings of Beethoven are in the texts of his songs, which
      show heavy traits of Hegelianism, especially in the 9th symphony.<

      I have heard this speculation by writers before. But Klaus....
      Beethoven did not write the lyrics to his 9th, they were written by
      Schiller. Schiller's primary philosophical influence was Kant (He and
      Goethe were also influenced by Platonism and Renaissance Neoplatonism
      as I recall. This Neo-mysteries seems a better bet for influence of
      the pseudo-pagan lyrics in the 9th), the same person who influenced
      Schopenhauer. What's more, Schiller died a year before Hegel
      published "Phenominology and the Mind", his first influential work.
      Schopenhauer was familiar with the works of Schiller and Goethe (who
      were good friends), and gives them favorable reviews for the most
      part (which is not to say he agreed with them philosophically of
      course, he could not have.... unless his asceticism was partially
      meant to be a little humerous, and it may well have been.)
      Schopenhauer even collaborated with Goethe on "Theory of Colour". (it
      should not surprize us that these people with very different views
      could still respect each other, that does tend to be the mark of true
      philosophers. Dogmatic polemics are best left to mere religiousity.)

      Not only have you attributed your dislike to the wrong person, you
      have done it with an ahistorical line of reasoning. I doubt Schiller
      was thinking about Hegel when he wrote the words in question. Not
      that it matters if he did.... since _none of this_ is Gnostic.

      PMCV
    • lady_caritas
      ... Say, Ernst, would you humor me and translate the gist of this post for the majority of members who don t speak German? Thanks much, Cari
      Message 34 of 34 , Feb 7, 2003
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, ernststrohregenmantelrad
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > >--- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, klaus schilling <>
        > >pessy@c...> wrote:
        > > ernststrohregenmantelrad writes:
        > > >
        > > > I thought Sufi was a part of Islam or did I miss something?
        > >
        > > For Schopenhauer, Sufi is of vedantic origin,
        > > disguised as Islam.
        > >
        > > Klaus Schilling
        >
        > Mensch, es gibt zu viel DDHG* bei dir!
        >
        > Du hebst so oft AS in den Himmel!
        >
        > Du nimmst die Meinung Schopenhauer als die Tatsache.
        >
        > Die ist nur einer der Meinungen von der Ursprung.
        >
        > *Der Doktor hat gesagt- wird benutzt vom Anthroposoph, der
        > hebt Steiner in den Himmel. In diesen Fall machst du mit
        > Schopenhauer so wie so Anthroposoph mit Steiner.


        Say, Ernst, would you humor me and translate the gist of this post
        for the majority of members who don't speak German?

        Thanks much,

        Cari
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