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Re: Resonating scripture

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  • Mike Leavitt
    Hello lady_caritas ... All I can say is that any motive less than love, contains the ego and is suspect. This passage is so good, I have never seen a really
    Message 1 of 45 , Jan 3, 2003
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      Hello lady_caritas

      On 03-Jan-03, you wrote:

      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      >> Hello lady_caritas
      >> On 28-Dec-02, you wrote:
      >>> With the New Year just around the corner, I'll be taking a few
      > days
      >>> retreat, but before I depart, I want to pose a question to
      > members,
      >>> new and old:
      >>> Do you have favorite Gnostic scripture(s) and why? Also, feel
      > free
      >>> to share any related verses, personal stories, revelations, etc.
      >>> I like to think that ancient wisdom can still strike a chord
      >>> nowadays. What do you think?
      >>> Happy New Year, everyone.
      >>> Cari :-)
      >> 1 Corinthians 13.
      >> Regards
      >> --
      >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
      > Greetings, all. I arrived home last night to some quite interesting,
      > varied responses here. Thank you. I shall reply to all of you
      > gradually as I find time in the next few days.
      > So, Mike, your concise answer, 1 Corinthians 13, in turn elicits a
      > longer response from me. LOL
      > This chapter in Corinthians is of course quite a popular one for
      > many people of divergent religions, and one would think love should
      > be a common denominator for all people. Indeed, I own a mug with a
      > favorite passage from this chapter in Corinthians, and one can find
      > plaques and all kinds of paraphernalia with these words of love in
      > many stores and catalogs.
      > Upon closer inspection though, I find it amazing at the varied
      > interpretations of this ostensibly unifying message.
      > My dear Methodist mother somehow felt compelled to present this
      > heretic with yet another Bible this Christmas
      > oh, and not just any humdrum version. My gift was none other than
      > _The NIV Rainbow Study Bible_, color-coded by 12 themes running
      > throughout this conservative compendium. How did I ever survive up
      > to this point without the aid of dazzlingly color-coded scripture?
      > *Sigh*
      > Well, Mike, you have given me an opportunity to open the pages of
      > this incredible work of art to your favorite passage. Lo! 1
      > Corinthians 13 is coded with not one, but THREE colors signifying
      > love, family (Verse 11), and prophecy (Verses 8-10 and 12). I also
      > have opened an older version of _The NIV Study Bible_, which
      > contains extensive footnotes, and I shall perhaps somewhat
      > haphazardly attempt to compare these to Elaine Pagels' commentary of
      > this passage in _The Gnostic Paul_.
      > Exegesis of Verses 9 and 10 is interesting:
      > ("For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection
      > comes, the imperfect disappears.")
      > Pagels, p. 79: "Since they claim that only pneumatics truly have
      > love, the Valentinians read this passage as the psychics' admission
      > that their prophecies, their tongues, their gnosis, are only
      > limited: what is psychic, and therefore only partial, must give way
      > to what is pneumatic and perfect."
      > Yes, there is this admission, but the psychics' interpretation of
      > completeness might seem limited to a Valentinian. Footnotes in the
      > NIV version offer possibilities such as, the death of the Christian,
      > the maturity (or establishment) of the church, or completion of the
      > canon of NT scripture. "Verse 12, however, seems to indicate that
      > Paul is here speaking of Christ's second coming."
      > Ah, so NIV footnotes to Verses 11-13 continue this theme that "the
      > Christian will know the Lord to the fullest extent possible [ ]",
      > but "this will not be true until the Lord returns." Verse 13 is
      > interpreted to infer that "God is love" and has commanded us to love
      > one another.
      > Compare to Pagels, p. 80: "Finally, Paul mentions faith and hope
      > qualities that psychics may share with the elect
      > but praises love as the "greatest of these," the pneumatic
      > "superior way" known to the elect alone. The writer of the Gospel of
      > Philip contrasts _faith_, through which one receives divine gifts,
      > with _love_, through which one also gives them. Apparently
      > commenting on the three qualities Paul mentions (13:13), he says,
      > "the husbandry of God is . . . through _four_: faith, hope, love,
      > and gnosis. Our earth is faith, in which we take root. The water is
      > hope, through which we are nourished. The wind is love, through
      > which we grow. But the light is _gnosis_, through which we ripen to
      > maturity."
      > The key would be gnosis then. What a "heretical" notion. :-)
      > Mike, I have gone on much too long here. If you're so inclined to
      > share with us, what about this chapter in Corinthians inspires
      > *you*?
      > Cari

      All I can say is that any motive less than love, contains the ego and
      is suspect. This passage is so good, I have never seen a really bad
      translation of it (it seems to defy that), though your rainbow themes
      comes close :-). It is a beautiful piece of writing, and perhaps we
      are overlooking Plato's trinity of the Good, the True and the
      Beautiful here. Oh well.

      Mike Leavitt ac998@...
    • pmcvflag
      ... Others would argue that the movement INTO Latin as the scholar s lingua franca was the greatest mistake of western culture... this would include the
      Message 45 of 45 , Jan 9, 2003
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        > Because moving away from Latin as the scholars' lingua franca
        > was the greatest error throughout the history of European culture.
        > This has already been noted by A. Schopenhauer.

        Others would argue that the movement INTO Latin as the
        scholar's "lingua franca" was the greatest mistake of western
        culture... this would include the Greek-speaking composers of much of
        the Nag Hammadi library, as well as it's Coptic speaking translators.
        Often times both of these languages were very specifically used as
        outposts of resistance against Latin cultural oppression. In northern
        Egypt the Greek speaking community was second only to the Jews for
        their reputation for insurrection (in Alexandria the Greek community
        lived just to the south of the walled Jewish quarter, and the
        cultural exchange equalled the resentment of occupation. This is the
        venue in which Gnosticism was created).

        None of these books we are talking about were written in Latin, so
        gumming up the works with yet a fourth (unrelated) language in the
        mix seemed rather strange is all. Don't get me wrong, Latin is a
        wonderful language, and one that is very useful to the scientific
        community. It is also something like speaking Hebrew at a Palistinian
        knitting club. I have no problem if you want to use latin... knock
        yourself out our uptight friend. Now, if we were talking about
        Catholicism it would seem perfectly obvious that you should use Latin.

        By the way..... Schopenhauer wasn't Gnostic either.

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