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Re: The Black Arts by Richard Cavendish

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  • pmcvflag
    I don t even think we can categorically state that the Demiurge is represented as non-spiritual... though we can say that it usually seems to be. Samael is a
    Message 1 of 43 , Nov 6, 2002
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      I don't even think we can categorically state that the Demiurge is
      represented as non-spiritual... though we can say that it "usually"
      seems to be. Samael is a term used elswhere to describe Satan, so
      would could postulate (and I stress POSTULATE) that in some cases the
      Demiurgos was identified with Satan, but in some cases there seems to
      be a similarity with the rebel of heaven, Sabaoth who takes the place
      of Saklas. However, I am trying to think off the top of my head if I
      ever remember the actual word "Satan" being used in any texts, and
      frankly can't (not saying it isn't there though, I am in one of my
      bumble headed moods tonight). I don't however find the overall
      structure as unclear as you feel it is.

      PMCV

      --- In gnosticism2@y..., incognito_lightbringer <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > Again, the relationship between Sophia, Demiurge, and Satan isn't
      so
      > clear. Are they all the same force described as a plurality, where
      > some aspects are to redeemed, others destroyed? Is Sophia,
      > well...Sophia in the upper aeons, but Satan/Demiurge/Spirit in the
      > material world, a kind of fracture or psychosis or duality? I know
      > the gnostic texts present a linear story, but they do so with the
      > Pleroma also (this came first, then that, then that) but that's
      still
      > all a unity and stressed as such. Origin of the World, with
      > Ialdeboath and all his sons, may be similar. Thus when an upheaveal
      > takes place, it's within the demiurge himself, and the demiurge is
      > material (animate but not spiritual) and has part of Sophia's
      power.
      > Satan on the other hand is spiritual, but evil. Just throwing some
      > ideas around.
      >
      > I read in one heresiological source(I think it's Hippolytus about
      the
      > Valentinians, I'll have to go through a stack of books to find it)
      > that they interpreted the myth of the prodigal son as Satan and
      > Jesus. Jesus is the older son, Satan is the younger one who goes
      off
      > drinking, whoring, and so on, eventually to repent and return home.
    • fred60471
      ... http://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html Regards, fred
      Message 43 of 43 , Nov 15, 2002
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        --- In gnosticism2@y..., "Wayne" <waynel@i...> wrote:
        > --- In gnosticism2@y..., "Kishara" <kisharaiwass@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > You should read "meditations" by marcus aurelius.
        > >
        > > -K.A.
        >
        >
        > Can I find it on the internet?

        http://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.html

        Regards,
        fred
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