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Clarification

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  • Gerry
    ... Nonsense, Will! There’s no crime in paying attention to detail with regards to posts of your personal quest or any other discussion, especially as
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 20, 2002
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      Reply to Will’s post #6751:

       

       

      >>Laura, I am an old button-pusher from way back. I am not part of this group, being an interloper who is not a Gnostic, so do not think ill of the real group. I alone am the nasty one.<<

       

       

      Nonsense, Will!  There’s no crime in paying attention to detail with regards to posts of your personal quest or any other discussion, especially as you’ve done so in civil and entertaining fashion since we’ve been acquainted.  I’ve yet to see you peddling inappropriate agenda anywhere. 

       

      Speaking of “nastiness” though—during the recent barrage from SG and his sundry other personalities, I regret that your name ended up being confused with any personal information from my Yahoo profile.

       

      Yes, I am indeed form North Carolina, and to the best of my recollection, the Landover Baptist site has been listed as a “Cool Link” on my ID since I created this account.  Oddly enough, during those few years, this is the first time EVER that someone has noticed that link and revealed that they associated it with clearly indicating that I am a Southern Baptist.  [I see a disclaimer coming on…]

       

      For the record, I am not now nor have I ever been a Southern Baptist (or any kind of Baptist for that matter);  neither have my family and forebears been thus affiliated.

       

      Methodists—yes.

      Presbyterians—yes.

      Anglicans—yes.

      Lutherans (on my mom’s side)—yes.

      Masons—absolutely!

       

      Can you just picture a bona fide Southern Baptist driving back from the mountains with a case of wine in the trunk?—heretical wine produced in the centuries-old tradition of Waldensian vintners, at that!  I really don’t think the SB convention would have me.  ;-)

       

      Truth is, I always thought that said Cool Link was a fun way to introduce my sarcastic nature to others who might happen to review my personal data.  Ironically, I anticipated having to further engage SG on the inaccuracies of his assumptions upon returning from my trip, but he seemed to make my case without help from anyone.  When someone interprets a well-composed parody site like Landover Baptist as literal gospel——well, I don’t think any amount of “meditation” is really going to help such an individual.   Sadly, it goes back to Cari’s observation of the rise of fundamentalism—and the real danger that it presents—especially to those of us trying to live in this world as “passersby.”

       

       

      Gerry

       

       

      P.S.  BTW, this is one of my favorite pages I encountered through Landover.  Being a “recipe” for Easter cookies, it’s not exactly timely for Halloween, but the trick or treat theme is definitely present:

       

      http://www.bettybowers.com/recipe.html

       

      Enjoy!

       

       

    • Will Brown
      Gerry, from #6777: Nonsense, Will! There s no crime in paying attention to detail with regards to posts of your personal quest or any other discussion,
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 20, 2002
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        Gerry, from #6777: Nonsense, Will! There's no crime in paying
        attention to detail with regards to posts of your personal quest or
        any other discussion, especially as you've done so in civil and
        entertaining fashion since we've been acquainted. I've yet to see you
        peddling inappropriate agenda anywhere.

        Heavens to Betsy there Gerry, let me show you my nasty side. I have
        been thinking about what bothers me about Gnosticism and have made
        many attempts to put it into words. It has to do with the line drawn
        between the spiritual and the material and how that line came to be
        drawn in the first place. Here is one of my attempts. I wasn't
        planning to release it, but since I have been accused of not being
        nasty, nor inappropriate, you asked for it. Grrrr and all that! Rating
        @ 100,000 Scoville Units!

        What follows is my view of Gnostic system. I am sure you will disabuse
        of any errors in my view of your system. The error to be transcended
        is defined as the world we live, think, imagine, and experience in.
        That means that we are part and parcel of the error. The truth to be
        found is the other world, the spiritual world. Unless there were some
        sort of bridge between the two, there would be no way of getting from
        one to the other, much less an inkling of it. That bridge is defined
        as an inner spark such that when we contact it we are in contact with
        that other world. Without such a bridge, and the contact with it, the
        system would not be self-consistent.

        Basically, there is a posit of two separate worlds, one
        incommensurable with the other, in which one of them is really fouled
        up and the other not. This is to be determined as fact from the fouled
        up world through an experience of the not fouled up world. Since those
        two worlds are incommensurable one with the other, there needs be a
        factor within the fouled up world to allow for an experience of the
        not fouled up world. If that is taken metaphorically, it fits many
        schemes of salvation through self-knowing, where the fouling-up factor
        is self-ignorance, or an incorrect grasp of oneself as oneself, and
        the error is revealed through experience. If it is not taken as
        metaphor, where in fact there is a material world separate from a
        spiritual world, that bridge, or inner spark, is a necessary item, and
        the experience of that inner spark is necessary to reveal the fact of
        the two incommensurable worlds. I do not see how it is possible for
        one to be a Gnostic and not take that separation as gospel, and this
        may be the flaw in my reasoning, but without that division, Gnosticism
        would not be Gnosticism.

        It is obviously possible to imagine another world, the spiritual
        world, a world absolutely separate from the material world, and if we
        are capable of imagining such a world we are also capable of imagining
        a given experience as representing a bridge experience. If there were,
        within the experiences capable of being experienced, a category of
        self-referential experiences that were capable of being sensed as
        experiences of a different nature, these self-referential experiences
        could not only be capable of being interpreted as bridge experiences,
        but could also engender the notion of having experienced another
        world, fostering the imagining of an other world. In other words, any
        experience taken as an experience of that inner spark is still open to
        being taken as only taken that way; and if such a choice of takes is
        possible, no certainty is possible in the matter.

        My conclusion is that Gnosticism, for all its assertions to the
        contrary, is a system that requires faith for any who adhere to it.
        That faith being that the experiences that authenticate it are what
        they seem to be. Given that the material world itself, the one we
        inhabit, is placed within the system as not being what it seems to be,
        an article of faith seems necessary to take any experience as a world
        transcending experience.
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