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Re: the broken vase?

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  • beautiful2afault
    wow, thanks for the overview. this has been a quick review as to what is known. i agree. to the overview. if the demiurge is the created world then our
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 17 7:40 AM
      wow, thanks for the overview. this has been a quick review as to
      what is known. i agree. to the overview. if the demiurge is the
      created world then our individual task is to pass through this to be
      restored both spiritually and mentally and physically to the source
      of where light orginated.

      i have not made it that far. the orginated spark.

      but i do believe what you have discribed is the kabballah in
      understandable form structure. these names to assign to the levels
      of transfromation as per an individual being these, or an entity
      being these to the assigned names, i'll have to take your word, what
      i do see is that these names represent levels of assent or decent as
      to god coming or the individual as you or i assenting the
      transfromation

      the individual as you or i assending can be attained through
      spiritual revelation or mental knowing.
      the gnostic entity decending would be the attempt to bring such
      knowledge to humanity for our assent process.

      the decent is again a spiritual revelation. it also could be a
      physical decent as with christ's coming to reveal the supream being's
      claim over the world.

      so even if a demiruge created the world. it is still within the
      supream beings claim.

      i had been confused with all the talk of terms and the discounting of
      the "OT" but not now. and never confused in my belief of the supream
      being.

      as for the world being created by a demiurge, that creation of
      evil. the physical world seen as a prision full of suffering and
      pain. still the supream being offers healing and goodness in all
      around us.

      so back to your orginal discription of the ain, and the keter and the
      task to be restored. i feel what you have discribed is the levels of
      the kabalah.
      then how we as individuals go about the transformation is really not
      an issue. as long as we are reasonable in our attempt at goodness.
      our tranformation is garenteed through god's grace/light
      for the levels have been created from the origins through the decent
      to the achon and then again to the god head.

      ok, this is my thinking as to your discription.

      second to this i do not think the quabella is of jewish origins. but
      dates even earlier as to hindu beginnings or even earlier.

      b





      --- In gnosticism2@y..., "Mister Coraxo" <coraxo@e...> wrote:
      > Oh, I thought you were kidding with the things you said about
      Kabbalah.
      >
      > From my experience the Kabbalah is a system of knowledge based on
      torah, the
      > Wisdom literature and Prophets in the old testament using and
      esoteric
      > interpretation and gematria. This does not seem to match you own
      statements
      > about Kabbalah.
      >
      > In the Lurianic system of Kabbalah, YHVH created through a process
      called
      > tzimtzum or contraction, the process then created vessels of light
      which then
      > shattered (shevrit ha kelim) creating matter from the shells or
      remnants of
      > the vessel in which sparks of Divine Light (nitzot) were trapped.
      The
      > enterprise of the Lurianic system is to repair the world (tikkun ha
      olam) and
      > restore the nitzot (Sparks) to union with YHVH.
      >
      > This does not seem to match what you wrote - which makes me
      question
      > whether your material is based on anything that can be vcalled the
      kabbalah. It
      > may be an insight that you have personally had, however, I would
      not call it
      > Kabbalah.
      >
      > The question is Kabbalah gnostic? I don't know - it does not seem
      to have a
      > soteriologic principle and appears to be based on esoteric
      understandoing of
      > the texts and upon good deeds (mitzvot). However, the Tzaddik, as a
      perfected
      > person may provide the soteriological function.
      >
      > Nevetheless, Kabbalah does appear to center upon repairing the Face
      of God (
      > the Arikh Anpin) and restoring it to its position in YHWH - which
      speaks to the
      > alienation of YHVH from himself.
      >
      > My own thinking on the matter is that the TzimTzum is the Fall of
      Sophia who
      > gives rise to the cosmological abortion of her enthymesis from
      which arises
      > the Arikh Anpin (Forbearing One) and the Zeir Anpin (Wrathful One).
      As such
      > the personality of the Demiurge is split.
      >
      > Some would call Arikh Anpin the gnostic transcendent first
      principle, but
      > since he is generated from Keter, he would appear to be subordinate
      to the
      > Ain, Ain Soph and Ain Soph Aur which to my understanding are the
      limits of
      > the Pleroma.
      >
      > So to my mind Ain is the Bythos and Sige, Ain Soph is the Pleroma
      to the 30th
      > szygy, Ain Soph Aur is the restored Sophia, and then Keter is the
      Demiurge,
      > Chochmah is Achamoth (albeit there is a gender reassignment from
      female to
      > male) then there is Zeir Anpin ( the Archon of this World) and
      finally Malkuth,
      > the divine seed resident in the Pneumatic Polis Adelphos.
      >
      > The task is to pass through the Demiurge and to Keter and then be
      restored to
      > the Sophia from which out sparks of light originated.
      >
      > Of course this model is subject to refinement; I won't be so bold
      as to make
      > universal pronouncements on the Kabbalh as if they were true for
      all and
      > sundry.
      >
      > Corax
      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@y..., "beautiful2afault" <beautiful2afault@y...>
      wrote:
      > > like i said, what do i know.
      > > i can only know what i have seen. what i conject and my own
      faith in
      > > something greater.
      >
      > Nota bene; Gnosticism is not based on Faith, it is based on Gnosis
      and all Faith
      > (Pistis) is based on Gnosis, as are Hope and Agape.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > happy healing and knowledge to you
      > >
      > > b2af
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In gnosticism2@y..., "Mister Coraxo" <coraxo@e...> wrote:
      > > > This is hilarious B2AF;
      > > >
      > > > Looking forward to more satire from you in the future!
      > > >
      > > > Corax
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In gnosticism2@y..., "beautiful2afault"
      <beautiful2afault@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > the Kabbalah is not shards of light that have been lost in
      matter.
      > > > >
      > > > > no. its not this at all.
      > > > >
      > > > > the kabbalah is the willingness to become a likeness of
      matter
      > > and
      > > > > still remain as it was yet transformed into something more.
      > > > >
      > > > > the kabbalah is the transformation of the process toward
      > > inlightment
      > > > > for the average citizen as they would understand the kabbalah.
      > > > >
      > > > > the structure not stattered but still remaining the entity
      and
      > > > > entities within the structure of light developing toward
      earth's
      > > > > inhabitants for their understanding of themselves, their
      > > spiritual
      > > > > self those on the earth.
      > > > >
      > > > > how many times has the kabbalah been revealed to the earth
      other
      > > than
      > > > > through study and divine inspiration?
      > > > >
      > > > > has anyone ever discribed the kabbalah?
      > > > > i don't mean to sound stupid. but is the kabbalah considered
      > > > > gnoistic?
      > > > >
      > > > > b
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In gnosticism2@y..., "blackfire_al" <blackfire_al@y...>
      wrote:
      > > > > > "Break a vase and the love that reassmbles the fragments
      is
      > > > > > stronger than the love which took its symmetry for granted
      when
      > > it
      > > > > > was whole."
      > > > > > Derek Walcott "Antilles"(essay)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I read this and thought it had a gnostic reference but now
      I
      > > think
      > > > > it
      > > > > > is more in the realm of the Kabbalah, with its image of the
      > > shards
      > > > > of
      > > > > > light that have been lost in matter and must be put back
      > > together.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Had more to say but lost it...oh well.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Blackfire
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