Re: Purpose of life
- --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
> incognito_lightbringer writes:Notwithstanding past discussions in our group as to whether Cathars
> > What about the Cathar endura?
> Suicide by starving tends to be licit, as it can be a consequence of
> mortification of the Thelema.
> Fast active suicides are, to the contrary, usually a form of
> affirmation of the Thelema, with very rare exceptions
> like those of Philip Mainlaender and Mario de Sa'-Carneiro
> This has been shown e.g. by A. Schopenhauer's
> "Welt als Wille und Vorstellung"
> Klaus Schilling
considered the sacrament of Consolamentum to be of ultimate
significance in liberation instead of Gnosis in their soteriology,
the Cathar endura was nonetheless according to the author in the
" not attested in early Catharist sources, but, it does appear to
have been a practice among the late (and extremely peculiar) Cathars
of Montaillou in the fourteenth century. Much in their beliefs and
practices is unusual, and although Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie's account,
_Montaillou_, is perhaps the most widely known work on the Cathars,
neither it, nor the heretics it describes can be taken as typical."
As to one view on Schopenhauer ~
"Within philosophy itself, Schopenhauer is important for having
broken with his Idealist contemporaries both in espousing a down-to-
earth materialism and in forsaking philosophic jargon in favor of a
limpid and vigorous literary style. He put forward a metaphysics of
the will which approached life in concrete terms (his psychological
insights often anticipate Freud) and resulted in a pessimistic
attitude to the cosmos. Schopenhauer held that there are two ways to
combat the tyranny of the will. The first is through art, at its most
exalted in music; it is this aspect that entitles him to be thought
of as the exemplarily Romantic philosopher, expounding (in Thomas
Mann's phrase) a `Künstlerphilosophie [artist's philosophy] par
excellence.' The second path lies in an ethic of asceticism and self-
overcoming; Schopenhauer was one of the first Western thinkers to
take seriously Hindu and Buddhist philosophy."
"But art offers only a temporary exit from the phenomenal world--the
world of suffering, of practical affairs, of causal determinism. The
more lasting path is not aesthetic but ethical. The individual,
Schopenhauer argues, ought to overcome the chains of desire that
enslave him to the will; the ideal is disillusioned, ascetic turning
away from the world. It would be better not to have been born; yet
suicide is a mistake, since it rules out the possibility of self-
An interesting read. Cari, although as for the "Diabola est Deus Inversus", I've recently come to the conclusion that God and the Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky waiting for the lightning bolt to strike).
Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both? I once wrote a poem about "God and the Devil dancing around me trading off masks" so I was never sure who was who or what was what.
--- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
> pessy@c... wrote:
> domiati writes:
> > What is the purpose of my life?
> > What is the purpose of your life?
> > What is the purpose of our lives?
> Klaus Schilling
> SELF-MORTIFICATION !!??!**&$$#^&@#!!?!
> Come on, Klaus, it can't be as bad as all that.
> There must be a reason for this...I mean there has to be...I mean
isn't there?...something?...anything...Hey, anybody...give me some
Blackfire ~ Of course, only Klaus can explain further what he means
in his post by "self-mortification."
In the meantime, the following homily by Rev. Steven Marshall offers
one perspective on "Self-Examination."
Whether or not one agrees with Steven Marshall's point of view (with
Jungian overtones), his words are pause for consideration.
"So, why do we not suggest that we all leave this vale of woe in some
mass suicide? Because there is something yet very precious about
human consciousness�there is an insight, a resurrection, a Gnosis
that can only be achieved in this embodied consciousness. This Gnosis
not only liberates one from the attachments and snares of the world
but also awakens a compassion for all sentient beings and a desire to
remain and help others with the task of Self-knowledge. Liberation
from the chains of attainment frees us from bondage to our demiurgic
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- Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when
you're rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with
milk and honey? (I hate to even ask about chocolate, the Inca kings
drank 100 cups a day of that stuff).
Klaus, are you a Mormon?
Hoeller tells an amusing story in one of his lectures how the Mormons
came to Austria to convert the locals. His mother was complaining
that they wanted everyone to give coffee up, and that just wouldn't
do. They didn't have a very successful mission.
--- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
> incognito_lightbringer writes:
> > Klaus admires the encratites.
> > Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine.
> 'Wine' extends to all strongly psychoactive materials,
> like shrooms, coffee, and LSD.
> > (Maybe a visit to the local
> > dominatrix for some flagellation)
> that's anti-encratite as well
> Klaus Schilling
- incognito_lightbringer writes:
> Klaus, are you a Mormon?No way.
Morons violate celibacy and veganism
without even a glimpse of malconscience.
They even justify marriage and procreation. *vomit*
They also deny palingenetic reincarnation.
In addition, they are against docetism.
On top of all, they are personalistic theists.
They also deny the inherent evilness of creation.
So I'm nowhere near the Morons,
even scored 0% in the belief-o-matic test.
- Heh, heh. Incognito, I sit here finally with my first cup of coffee
of the day (even though I've been up and busy for over three hours
already) to read again through various thoughtful responses from
members to my evolutionary quandary.
Be back later when I attempt to put some thoughts together,
influenced though they may be by ingestion of this "strongly
And, Klaus, I just read your most recent post. Your spelling
of "Mormons" was surely just a typographical error? And, although
you are certainly entitled to your lifestyle, I'll try to ignore
the "vomit" comment, too.
--- In gnosticism2@y..., incognito_lightbringer <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when
> you're rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with
> milk and honey? (I hate to even ask about chocolate, the Inca kings
> drank 100 cups a day of that stuff).
> Klaus, are you a Mormon?
> Hoeller tells an amusing story in one of his lectures how the
> came to Austria to convert the locals. His mother was complaining
> that they wanted everyone to give coffee up, and that just wouldn't
> do. They didn't have a very successful mission.
> --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
> > incognito_lightbringer writes:
> > > Klaus admires the encratites.
> > > Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine.
> > 'Wine' extends to all strongly psychoactive materials,
> > like shrooms, coffee, and LSD.
> > > (Maybe a visit to the local
> > > dominatrix for some flagellation)
> > that's anti-encratite as well
> > Klaus Schilling
- --- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
>Inversus", I've recently come to the conclusion that God and the
> An interesting read. Cari, although as for the "Diabola est Deus
Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky
waiting for the lightning bolt to strike).
>about "God and the Devil dancing around me trading off masks" so I
> Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both? I once wrote a poem
was never sure who was who or what was what.
> BlackfireDo you still have the poem? It sounds interesting.
Anyway, Blackfire, in Gnostic mythology the deity who created the
material world is not the same as the True God or Bythos. The
mythological creator god takes on a range of characteristics from
evil (Sethian) to a more foolish, capricious deity (Valentinian)
depending on the Gnostic school.
The article in this link will give you an introduction to the
Demiurge in Valentinianism ~
from the text:
".. the Demiurge in Valentinianism is quite different in character
from the hostile creator figure familiar from other schools of
Gnosticism. In the Sethian school, for example, the Demiurge is a
hostile demonic force who creates the material world in order to trap
the spiritual elements. In contrast, Valentinians "show a relatively
positive attitude towards the craftsman of the world or god of
Israel" (Layton 1987). Valentinians insisted that while the Demiurge
may be a bit foolish, he certainly could not be considered evil.
Instead, he has a role to play in the process of redemption."