Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Purpose of life

Expand Messages
  • lady_caritas
    ... Notwithstanding past discussions in our group as to whether Cathars considered the sacrament of Consolamentum to be of ultimate significance in liberation
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
      > incognito_lightbringer writes:
      > > What about the Cathar endura?
      >
      > Suicide by starving tends to be licit, as it can be a consequence of
      > mortification of the Thelema.
      > Fast active suicides are, to the contrary, usually a form of
      > affirmation of the Thelema, with very rare exceptions
      > like those of Philip Mainlaender and Mario de Sa'-Carneiro
      > This has been shown e.g. by A. Schopenhauer's
      > "Welt als Wille und Vorstellung"
      >
      >
      > Klaus Schilling

      Notwithstanding past discussions in our group as to whether Cathars
      considered the sacrament of Consolamentum to be of ultimate
      significance in liberation instead of Gnosis in their soteriology,
      the Cathar endura was nonetheless according to the author in the
      following link,
      "… not attested in early Catharist sources, but, it does appear to
      have been a practice among the late (and extremely peculiar) Cathars
      of Montaillou in the fourteenth century. Much in their beliefs and
      practices is unusual, and although Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie's account,
      _Montaillou_, is perhaps the most widely known work on the Cathars,
      neither it, nor the heretics it describes can be taken as typical."

      http://www.gnosis.org/consolamentum.html

      As to one view on Schopenhauer ~

      http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/schopenbio.html#_dieweltalswilleund
      vorstellung

      "Within philosophy itself, Schopenhauer is important for having
      broken with his Idealist contemporaries both in espousing a down-to-
      earth materialism and in forsaking philosophic jargon in favor of a
      limpid and vigorous literary style. He put forward a metaphysics of
      the will which approached life in concrete terms (his psychological
      insights often anticipate Freud) and resulted in a pessimistic
      attitude to the cosmos. Schopenhauer held that there are two ways to
      combat the tyranny of the will. The first is through art, at its most
      exalted in music; it is this aspect that entitles him to be thought
      of as the exemplarily Romantic philosopher, expounding (in Thomas
      Mann's phrase) a `Künstlerphilosophie [artist's philosophy] par
      excellence.' The second path lies in an ethic of asceticism and self-
      overcoming; Schopenhauer was one of the first Western thinkers to
      take seriously Hindu and Buddhist philosophy."

      and

      "But art offers only a temporary exit from the phenomenal world--the
      world of suffering, of practical affairs, of causal determinism. The
      more lasting path is not aesthetic but ethical. The individual,
      Schopenhauer argues, ought to overcome the chains of desire that
      enslave him to the will; the ideal is disillusioned, ascetic turning
      away from the world. It would be better not to have been born; yet
      suicide is a mistake, since it rules out the possibility of self-
      overcoming."

      Cari
    • alexis johnson
      An interesting read. Cari, although as for the Diabola est Deus Inversus , I ve recently come to the conclusion that God and the Devil are a vaudeville act
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
      • 0 Attachment

        An interesting read. Cari, although as for the "Diabola est Deus Inversus", I've recently come to the conclusion that God and the Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky waiting for the lightning bolt to strike).

         

        Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both?  I once wrote a poem about "God and the Devil dancing around me trading off masks" so I was never sure who was who or what was what.

        Blackfire

         lady_caritas wrote:

        --- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >  pessy@c... wrote:
        > domiati writes:
        > >
        > > What is the purpose of my life?
        >
        > Self-mortification
        >
        > > What is the purpose of your life?
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > > What is the purpose of our lives?
        >
        > ditto
        >
        >
        > Klaus Schilling
        >

        >
        > SELF-MORTIFICATION !!??!**&$$#^&@#!!?!
        >

        >
        > Come on, Klaus, it can't be as bad as all that.
        >

        >
        > There must be a reason for this...I mean there has to be...I mean
        isn't there?...something?...anything...Hey, anybody...give me some
        help here...


        Blackfire ~ Of course, only Klaus can explain further what he means
        in his post by "self-mortification."

        In the meantime, the following homily by Rev. Steven Marshall offers
        one perspective on "Self-Examination."

        http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/ecclesia/homily_Lent1.htm

        Whether or not one agrees with Steven Marshall's point of view (with
        Jungian overtones), his words are pause for consideration.

        "So, why do we not suggest that we all leave this vale of woe in some
        mass suicide? Because there is something yet very precious about
        human consciousness�there is an insight, a resurrection, a Gnosis
        that can only be achieved in this embodied consciousness. This Gnosis
        not only liberates one from the attachments and snares of the world
        but also awakens a compassion for all sentient beings and a desire to
        remain and help others with the task of Self-knowledge. Liberation
        from the chains of attainment frees us from bondage to our demiurgic
        egos."

        Cari




        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        gnosticism2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

      • incognito_lightbringer
        Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when you re rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with milk and honey? (I hate
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when
          you're rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with
          milk and honey? (I hate to even ask about chocolate, the Inca kings
          drank 100 cups a day of that stuff).
          Klaus, are you a Mormon?
          Hoeller tells an amusing story in one of his lectures how the Mormons
          came to Austria to convert the locals. His mother was complaining
          that they wanted everyone to give coffee up, and that just wouldn't
          do. They didn't have a very successful mission.

          --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
          > incognito_lightbringer writes:
          > > Klaus admires the encratites.
          > > Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine.
          >
          > 'Wine' extends to all strongly psychoactive materials,
          > like shrooms, coffee, and LSD.
          >
          > > (Maybe a visit to the local
          > > dominatrix for some flagellation)
          >
          > that's anti-encratite as well
          >
          > Klaus Schilling
        • pessy@chez.com
          ... No way. Morons violate celibacy and veganism without even a glimpse of malconscience. They even justify marriage and procreation. *vomit* They also deny
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            incognito_lightbringer writes:

            > Klaus, are you a Mormon?

            No way.
            Morons violate celibacy and veganism
            without even a glimpse of malconscience.
            They even justify marriage and procreation. *vomit*
            They also deny palingenetic reincarnation.
            In addition, they are against docetism.
            On top of all, they are personalistic theists.
            They also deny the inherent evilness of creation.
            So I'm nowhere near the Morons,
            even scored 0% in the belief-o-matic test.

            Klaus Schilling
          • lady_caritas
            Heh, heh. Incognito, I sit here finally with my first cup of coffee of the day (even though I ve been up and busy for over three hours already) to read again
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Heh, heh. Incognito, I sit here finally with my first cup of coffee
              of the day (even though I've been up and busy for over three hours
              already) to read again through various thoughtful responses from
              members to my evolutionary quandary.

              Be back later when I attempt to put some thoughts together,
              influenced though they may be by ingestion of this "strongly
              psychoactive" drink.

              And, Klaus, I just read your most recent post. Your spelling
              of "Mormons" was surely just a typographical error? And, although
              you are certainly entitled to your lifestyle, I'll try to ignore
              the "vomit" comment, too.

              Cheers,
              Cari :-)


              --- In gnosticism2@y..., incognito_lightbringer <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when
              > you're rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with
              > milk and honey? (I hate to even ask about chocolate, the Inca kings
              > drank 100 cups a day of that stuff).
              > Klaus, are you a Mormon?
              > Hoeller tells an amusing story in one of his lectures how the
              Mormons
              > came to Austria to convert the locals. His mother was complaining
              > that they wanted everyone to give coffee up, and that just wouldn't
              > do. They didn't have a very successful mission.
              >
              > --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
              > > incognito_lightbringer writes:
              > > > Klaus admires the encratites.
              > > > Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine.
              > >
              > > 'Wine' extends to all strongly psychoactive materials,
              > > like shrooms, coffee, and LSD.
              > >
              > > > (Maybe a visit to the local
              > > > dominatrix for some flagellation)
              > >
              > > that's anti-encratite as well
              > >
              > > Klaus Schilling
            • lady_caritas
              ... Inversus , I ve recently come to the conclusion that God and the Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky waiting for the lightning
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
                >
                > An interesting read. Cari, although as for the "Diabola est Deus
                Inversus", I've recently come to the conclusion that God and the
                Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky
                waiting for the lightning bolt to strike).
                >
                > Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both? I once wrote a poem
                about "God and the Devil dancing around me trading off masks" so I
                was never sure who was who or what was what.
                > Blackfire

                Do you still have the poem? It sounds interesting.

                Anyway, Blackfire, in Gnostic mythology the deity who created the
                material world is not the same as the True God or Bythos. The
                mythological creator god takes on a range of characteristics from
                evil (Sethian) to a more foolish, capricious deity (Valentinian)
                depending on the Gnostic school.

                The article in this link will give you an introduction to the
                Demiurge in Valentinianism ~

                http://www.cyberus.ca/~brons/demiurge.htm
                from the text:
                ".. the Demiurge in Valentinianism is quite different in character
                from the hostile creator figure familiar from other schools of
                Gnosticism. In the Sethian school, for example, the Demiurge is a
                hostile demonic force who creates the material world in order to trap
                the spiritual elements. In contrast, Valentinians "show a relatively
                positive attitude towards the craftsman of the world or god of
                Israel" (Layton 1987). Valentinians insisted that while the Demiurge
                may be a bit foolish, he certainly could not be considered evil.
                Instead, he has a role to play in the process of redemption."

                Cari
              • pessy@chez.com
                ... Both the demiurge and the devil are Archons, nowhere near the Divine. Klaus Schilling
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 6, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  alexis johnson writes:

                  >
                  > Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both?

                  Both the demiurge and the devil are Archons, nowhere near the Divine.

                  Klaus Schilling
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.