Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Gnosticism] ISLAM AND THE AsIM OF LIFE

Expand Messages
  • alexis johnson
    pessy@chez.com wrote: ... Self-mortification ... ditto ... ditto Klaus Schilling SELF-MORTIFICATION !!??!**&$$#^&@#!!?! Come on, Klaus, it can t be as bad as
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 3, 2002
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment

       pessy@... wrote:

      domiati writes:
      >
      > What is the purpose of my life?

      Self-mortification

      > What is the purpose of your life?

      ditto

      > What is the purpose of our lives?

      ditto


      Klaus Schilling

       

      SELF-MORTIFICATION !!??!**&$$#^&@#!!?!

       

      Come on, Klaus, it can't be as bad as all that.

       

      There must be a reason for this...I mean there has to be...I mean isn't there?...something?...anything...Hey, anybody...give me some help here...Why is there air?...(to blow up basketballs, of course)...let's see..."meaning"..."aim"..."life"...okay, time to get the search engine reved up and...this could take all nite!...shhhheeeeeshhhh...I'll get back to you all when I find something out.

       

      Blackfire, over and out.

       



       
      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      gnosticism2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



      Do You Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

    • lady_caritas
      ... isn t there?...something?...anything...Hey, anybody...give me some help here... Blackfire ~ Of course, only Klaus can explain further what he means in his
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 3, 2002
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > pessy@c... wrote:
        > domiati writes:
        > >
        > > What is the purpose of my life?
        >
        > Self-mortification
        >
        > > What is the purpose of your life?
        >
        > ditto
        >
        > > What is the purpose of our lives?
        >
        > ditto
        >
        >
        > Klaus Schilling
        >
        >
        >
        > SELF-MORTIFICATION !!??!**&$$#^&@#!!?!
        >
        >
        >
        > Come on, Klaus, it can't be as bad as all that.
        >
        >
        >
        > There must be a reason for this...I mean there has to be...I mean
        isn't there?...something?...anything...Hey, anybody...give me some
        help here...


        Blackfire ~ Of course, only Klaus can explain further what he means
        in his post by "self-mortification."

        In the meantime, the following homily by Rev. Steven Marshall offers
        one perspective on "Self-Examination."

        http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/ecclesia/homily_Lent1.htm

        Whether or not one agrees with Steven Marshall's point of view (with
        Jungian overtones), his words are pause for consideration.

        "So, why do we not suggest that we all leave this vale of woe in some
        mass suicide? Because there is something yet very precious about
        human consciousness—there is an insight, a resurrection, a Gnosis
        that can only be achieved in this embodied consciousness. This Gnosis
        not only liberates one from the attachments and snares of the world
        but also awakens a compassion for all sentient beings and a desire to
        remain and help others with the task of Self-knowledge. Liberation
        from the chains of attainment frees us from bondage to our demiurgic
        egos."

        Cari
      • wilbro99
        Reply to 6521: Alice, I was waiting to see if any other would take you up on the evolution post and along comes this. The point I was going to make there will
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 3, 2002
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Reply to 6521:

          Alice, I was waiting to see if any other would take you up on the
          evolution post and along comes this. The point I was going to make
          there will be made here, which is that the only thing to be taken
          literally is a change in the sensate self. I have read his entire
          sermon, if sermon it be, and would agree with the general thrust of
          it, especially as captured by the part you have quoted. Of course, I
          would cast it in different terms, but that is a matter of how one
          decides to describe that which is called Gnosis, the literal part; and
          that decision is one very complicated affair as I see it.

          Here is how I would change the part you quoted: Since the demiurgic
          ego is a reflected identity, a way of grasping "me" as "me," I would
          simply say that the attachments and snares of the world are of
          self-awareness, which is why it is called self-knowledge. As you can
          see, I am limiting it to the field of cognition, and to the self to
          self relation. Since that liberation, at least as I know it, brings
          about another sense of self, that self-reflection brings another
          dimension of reflection into being. This is what I would call the
          spiritual dimension. This is what I see Kierkegaard as calling the
          spiritual, for those who have the ears to hear, that is. ----willy

          "So, why do we not suggest that we all leave this vale of woe in some
          mass suicide? Because there is something yet very precious about human
          consciousness-there is an insight, a resurrection, a Gnosis that can
          only be achieved in this embodied consciousness. This Gnosis not only
          liberates one from the attachments and snares of [strike(the world)]
          [self-awareness] but also awakens a compassion for all sentient beings
          and a desire to [strike(remain and)] help others with the task of
          Self-knowledge. Liberation from the chains of attainment frees us from
          bondage to our demiurgic egos."
        • incognito_lightbringer
          Klaus admires the encratites. Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine. (Maybe a visit to the local dominatrix for some flagellation) But I can t see giving up showering
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 3, 2002
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Klaus admires the encratites.
            Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine. (Maybe a visit to the local
            dominatrix for some flagellation)
            But I can't see giving up showering ;)

            --- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > pessy@c... wrote:
            > domiati writes:
            > >
            > > What is the purpose of my life?
            >
            > Self-mortification
            >
            > > What is the purpose of your life?
            >
            > ditto
            >
            > > What is the purpose of our lives?
            >
            > ditto
            >
            >
            > Klaus Schilling
            >
            >
            >
            > SELF-MORTIFICATION !!??!**&$$#^&@#!!?!
            >
            >
            >
            > Come on, Klaus, it can't be as bad as all that.
            >
            >
            >
            > There must be a reason for this...I mean there has to be...I mean
            isn't there?...something?...anything...Hey, anybody...give me some
            help here...Why is there air?...(to blow up basketballs, of
            course)...let's see..."meaning"..."aim"..."life"...okay, time to get
            the search engine reved up and...this could take all
            nite!...shhhheeeeeshhhh...I'll get back to you all when I find
            something out.
            >
            >
            >
            > Blackfire, over and out.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > gnosticism2-unsubscribe@y...
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
          • incognito_lightbringer
            What about the Cathar endura? ... I ... and ... would ... can ... some ... human ... can ... only ... world)] ... beings ... from
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              What about the Cathar endura?

              --- In gnosticism2@y..., "wilbro99" <wilbro99@y...> wrote:
              > Reply to 6521:
              >
              > Alice, I was waiting to see if any other would take you up on the
              > evolution post and along comes this. The point I was going to make
              > there will be made here, which is that the only thing to be taken
              > literally is a change in the sensate self. I have read his entire
              > sermon, if sermon it be, and would agree with the general thrust of
              > it, especially as captured by the part you have quoted. Of course,
              I
              > would cast it in different terms, but that is a matter of how one
              > decides to describe that which is called Gnosis, the literal part;
              and
              > that decision is one very complicated affair as I see it.
              >
              > Here is how I would change the part you quoted: Since the demiurgic
              > ego is a reflected identity, a way of grasping "me" as "me," I
              would
              > simply say that the attachments and snares of the world are of
              > self-awareness, which is why it is called self-knowledge. As you
              can
              > see, I am limiting it to the field of cognition, and to the self to
              > self relation. Since that liberation, at least as I know it, brings
              > about another sense of self, that self-reflection brings another
              > dimension of reflection into being. This is what I would call the
              > spiritual dimension. This is what I see Kierkegaard as calling the
              > spiritual, for those who have the ears to hear, that is. ----willy
              >
              > "So, why do we not suggest that we all leave this vale of woe in
              some
              > mass suicide? Because there is something yet very precious about
              human
              > consciousness-there is an insight, a resurrection, a Gnosis that
              can
              > only be achieved in this embodied consciousness. This Gnosis not
              only
              > liberates one from the attachments and snares of [strike(the
              world)]
              > [self-awareness] but also awakens a compassion for all sentient
              beings
              > and a desire to [strike(remain and)] help others with the task of
              > Self-knowledge. Liberation from the chains of attainment frees us
              from
              > bondage to our demiurgic egos."
            • pessy@chez.com
              ... Wine extends to all strongly psychoactive materials, like shrooms, coffee, and LSD. ... that s anti-encratite as well Klaus Schilling
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                incognito_lightbringer writes:
                > Klaus admires the encratites.
                > Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine.

                'Wine' extends to all strongly psychoactive materials,
                like shrooms, coffee, and LSD.

                > (Maybe a visit to the local
                > dominatrix for some flagellation)

                that's anti-encratite as well

                Klaus Schilling
              • pessy@chez.com
                ... Suicide by starving tends to be licit, as it can be a consequence of mortification of the Thelema. Fast active suicides are, to the contrary, usually a
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  incognito_lightbringer writes:
                  > What about the Cathar endura?

                  Suicide by starving tends to be licit, as it can be a consequence of
                  mortification of the Thelema.
                  Fast active suicides are, to the contrary, usually a form of
                  affirmation of the Thelema, with very rare exceptions
                  like those of Philip Mainlaender and Mario de Sa'-Carneiro
                  This has been shown e.g. by A. Schopenhauer's
                  "Welt als Wille und Vorstellung"


                  Klaus Schilling
                • beautiful2afault
                  i got this far. Islam, the purpose of life is to worship Allah. The term Worship covers all acts of obedience to Allah and had to comment. without going
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    i got this far. "
                    Islam, the purpose of life is to worship Allah. The
                    term "Worship" covers all acts of obedience to Allah"

                    and had to comment.

                    without going into the formation of my thought. when the individual
                    must be brought to obedience the situation is in a far cry.

                    several things going on.

                    there is love and equality,
                    respect and honor
                    and finally obedience

                    it would seem to me that obedience is a far cry from love
                    but a good start for those who cannot fathom love especially one for
                    the other in any or all social or personal perspective.

                    so yes, by all means come up to a level of obedience if that means
                    civil conduct toward others. then try for higher levels of
                    existence. respect and honor, love and equality.

                    when i have to bend to obidence. i have left the platue of love and
                    respect.

                    of course following obidence can prevent a bunch of pain and
                    suffering in just doing what is told and said to do. like a
                    thougtless process not needing or wanting more. cause all should be
                    fulfilled from the sheer obidence of all acts in according to some
                    one elses and god's thinking.

                    well i don't think so. if you are without love or respect or the
                    inabiltiy to develop such. then by all means. strive for obidence.

                    and our world will be a better place. but don't force your thinking
                    upon ones who love god and try to love one another in the same breath.

                    understand this? understand this and the world will come to better.
                    if you don't understand this. then do strive toward obey toward god
                    and maybe some form of love.


                    beautiful2afault

                    --- In gnosticism2@y..., "domiati" <domiati@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > What is the purpose of my life? What is the purpose of your life?
                    > What is the purpose of our lives? Such questions occur frequently
                    to
                    > thingking people.
                    >
                    > People answer these questions in different ways. Some people
                    believe
                    > the purpose of life is getting wealthy. But these people what their
                    > purpose be after they have collected millions of dollars. So What?
                    > And then What? What will be their purpose after they get these
                    > millions of dollars? If the purpose of life is to become wealthy,
                    > there will be no purpose after becoming wealthy. And in fact, here
                    > comes the problem of some disbelievers or misbelievers. In some
                    > stages of their life. When they are collecting money is the target
                    of
                    > life. When they collected the money which they have dreamt of,
                    their
                    > life losses purpose and they live in tension and restlessness and
                    > suffer from the panic of nothingness.
                    >
                    > Can Wealth be an Aim?
                    >
                    > We often hear of a millionaire committing suicide. Sometimes, not
                    the
                    > millionaire himself but his wife, son, or daughter. The question is
                    > this: can aiming at wealth bring happiness to the individual? In
                    most
                    > cases the answer is NO. Is the purpose of collecting wealth is a
                    > standing purpose? As we know, the child of five years does not look
                    > for wealth: he prepares a toy to a million dollars. The adolescent
                    of
                    > eighteen does not dream of wealth because he is busy with more
                    > important things. The old man of ninety years does not care for
                    > money, he is worried more about his health. This proves that wealth
                    > cannot be a standing purpose in all the stages of the individual's
                    > life.
                    >
                    > Wealth can do a little to bring happiness to a disbeliever, because
                    a
                    > disbeliever is not sure about his end or his fate. A disbeliever
                    does
                    > not know the purpose of life. And if he has a purpose, this purpose
                    > is doomed to be temporary or self destructive.
                    >
                    > What is the use of wealth to a disbeliever if he feels scared of
                    the
                    > end and skeptical of everything. A disbeliever may gain a lot of
                    > money, but surely loses himself.
                    >
                    > Worshipping Allah as an Aim
                    >
                    > On the contrary, faith in Allah gives the believer the purpose of
                    > life he needs. In Islam, the purpose of life is to worship Allah.
                    The
                    > term "Worship" covers all acts of obedience to Allah.
                    >
                    > The Islamic purpose of life is a standing purpose. The true Muslim
                    > sticks to this purpose throughout all the stages of his life,
                    whether
                    > he is a child, adolescent, adult, or an old man.
                    >
                    > Worshipping Allah makes life purposeful and meaning especially with
                    > the framework of Islam. According to Islam this worldly life is
                    just
                    > a short stage of our life. Then there is the other life. The first
                    > life and the second life are by the death stage, which is a
                    > transitory stage of the second life. The type of the second life a
                    > person deserves depends on his deeds in the first life. At the end
                    of
                    > the death stage comes the day of judgment On this day, Allah
                    rewards
                    > or punishes people according to their deeds in the first life.
                    >
                    > The First Life as an Examination
                    >
                    > So Islam looks at the first life as an examination of man. The
                    death
                    > stage is similar to a rest period after the test, i. e., after the
                    > first life. The Day of Judgment is similar to the day of announcing
                    > the results of the examines. The second life is the time when each
                    > examinee enjoys or suffers from the outcome of his behaviour during
                    > the test period.
                    >
                    > In Islam, the line of life is clear, simple, and logical: the first
                    > life, death then the Day of Judgement, and then the second life.
                    With
                    > this clear line of life, the Muslim has a clear purpose in life.
                    The
                    > Muslims knows he is created by Allah. The Muslim knows he is going
                    to
                    > spend some years in this first life, during which he has to obey
                    God,
                    > because God will question him and hold him responsible for his
                    deeds,
                    > whether done publicly or privately, because Allah knows all deeds
                    of
                    > all people. The Muslim knows that his deeds in the first life will
                    > determine the type of his second life. The Muslim knows that this
                    > first life is very short one, one hundred years, more or less,
                    > whereas the second life is an eternal one.
                    >
                    > The Eternity of the second Life
                    >
                    > This concept of the eternity of the second life has a tremendous
                    > effect on a Muslim during his first life, habecause the Muslims
                    > believes that his first life determines the shape of his second
                    life.
                    > In addition, this determines shape of his second life. In addition,
                    > this determination will be through the Judgement of Allah, the All
                    > just and Almighty.
                    >
                    > With this belief in the second life and the Day of Judgement, the
                    > Muslim's life becomes as purposeful as possible and as meaningful
                    as
                    > possible. The Muslim's standing purpose is to go to Paradise in the
                    > second life.
                    >
                    > In other words, the Muslim's permanent purpose is to obey Allah, to
                    > summit to Allah to summit to Allah, to carry out His orders, and to
                    > keep in continues touch with Him through prayer (five times a day),
                    > through fasting (one month a year), through charity (as often as
                    > possible), and through pilgrimage (once in one's life).
                    >
                    > The need For a Permanent Purpose
                    >
                    > Disbelievers have purposes in their lives such as collecting money
                    > and property, indulging sex, eating, and dancing. But all these
                    > purposes are passing ones. All these purposes come and go, go up
                    and
                    > down. Money comes and goes. Health comes and goes. Sexual
                    activities
                    > cannot continue forever. All these lusts for money, food and sex
                    > cannot answer the individual's questions to himself: so what? Then
                    > What?
                    >
                    > However, Islam saves the Muslims from trouble of asking the
                    question,
                    > because Islam makes it clear to the Muslim, from the very
                    beginning,
                    > that the permanent purpose of the Muslim, in this life is to obey
                    > Allah in order to go to Paradise in the second life.
                    >
                    > We should know that the only way for our salvation in this life and
                    > in the hereafter is to know for sure our Lord who created us,
                    believe
                    > in Him, and worship Him alone.
                    >
                    > We should also know our Prophet whom Allah had sent to all mankind,
                    > believe in Him and follow Him. We should, know the religion of
                    truth
                    > which our Lord has commanded us to believe in, and practice it..
                    >
                    > Those in search of truth
                    >
                    > Who have an open mind and heart,
                    >
                    > Islamic Education Foundation
                    >
                    > Welcome You.
                    >
                    > Objectives: -
                    >
                    > To Convey the message of Islam
                    >
                    > To Educate Muslims aboof Islam
                    >
                    > To keep in close contact with new Muslims.
                    >
                    > Activities:
                    >
                    > Offering Courses and presenting lectures about Islam in several
                    > languages.
                    >
                    > Teaching Islam and Arabic.
                    >
                    > Teaching new Muslims to receive the Holy Quran.
                    >
                    > Helping Non- Muslims embrace Islam and complete the required
                    > procedures.
                    >
                    >
                    > What is the purpose of my life? What is the purpose of your life?
                    > What is the purpose of our lives? Such questions occur frequently
                    to
                    > thingking people.
                    >
                    > People answer these questions in different ways. Some people
                    believe
                    > the purpose of life is getting wealthy. But these people what their
                    > purpose be after they have collected millions of dollars. So What?
                    > And then What? What will be their purpose after they get these
                    > millions of dollars? If the purpose of life is to become wealthy,
                    > there will be no purpose after becoming wealthy. And in fact, here
                    > comes the problem of some disbelievers or misbelievers. In some
                    > stages of their life. When they are collecting money is the target
                    of
                    > life. When they collected the money which they have dreamt of,
                    their
                    > life losses purpose and they live in tension and restlessness and
                    > suffer from the panic of nothingness.
                    >
                    > Can Wealth be an Aim?
                    >
                    > We often hear of a millionaire committing suicide. Sometimes, not
                    the
                    > millionaire himself but his wife, son, or daughter. The question is
                    > this: can aiming at wealth bring happiness to the individual? In
                    most
                    > cases the answer is NO. Is the purpose of collecting wealth is a
                    > standing purpose? As we know, the child of five years does not look
                    > for wealth: he prepares a toy to a million dollars. The adolescent
                    of
                    > eighteen does not dream of wealth because he is busy with more
                    > important things. The old man of ninety years does not care for
                    > money, he is worried more about his health. This proves that wealth
                    > cannot be a standing purpose in all the stages of the individual's
                    > life.
                    >
                    > Wealth can do a little to bring happiness to a disbeliever, because
                    a
                    > disbeliever is not sure about his end or his fate. A disbeliever
                    does
                    > not know the purpose of life. And if he has a purpose, this purpose
                    > is doomed to be temporary or self destructive.
                    >
                    > What is the use of wealth to a disbeliever if he feels scared of
                    the
                    > end and skeptical of everything. A disbeliever may gain a lot of
                    > money, but surely loses himself.
                    >
                    > Worshipping Allah as an Aim
                    >
                    > On the contrary, faith in Allah gives the believer the purpose of
                    > life he needs. In Islam, the purpose of life is to worship Allah.
                    The
                    > term "Worship" covers all acts of obedience to Allah.
                    >
                    > The Islamic purpose of life is a standing purpose. The true Muslim
                    > sticks to this purpose throughout all the stages of his life,
                    whether
                    > he is a child, adolescent, adult, or an old man.
                    >
                    > Worshipping Allah makes life purposeful and meaning especially with
                    > the framework of Islam. According to Islam this worldly life is
                    just
                    > a short stage of our life. Then there is the other life. The first
                    > life and the second life are by the death stage, which is a
                    > transitory stage of the second life. The type of the second life a
                    > person deserves depends on his deeds in the first life. At the end
                    of
                    > the death stage comes the day of judgment On this day, Allah
                    rewards
                    > or punishes people according to their deeds in the first life.
                    >
                    > The First Life as an Examination
                    >
                    > So Islam looks at the first life as an examination of man. The
                    death
                    > stage is similar to a rest period after the test, i. e., after the
                    > first life. The Day of Judgment is similar to the day of announcing
                    > the results of the examines. The second life is the time when each
                    > examinee enjoys or suffers from the outcome of his behaviour during
                    > the test period.
                    >
                    > In Islam, the line of life is clear, simple, and logical: the first
                    > life, death then the Day of Judgement, and then the second life.
                    With
                    > this clear line of life, the Muslim has a clear purpose in life.
                    The
                    > Muslims knows he is created by Allah. The Muslim knows he is going
                    to
                    > spend some years in this first life, during which he has to obey
                    God,
                    > because God will question him and hold him responsible for his
                    deeds,
                    > whether done publicly or privately, because Allah knows all deeds
                    of
                    > all people. The Muslim knows that his deeds in the first life will
                    > determine the type of his second life. The Muslim knows that this
                    > first life is very short one, one hundred years, more or less,
                    > whereas the second life is an eternal one.
                    >
                    > The Eternity of the second Life
                    >
                    > This concept of the eternity of the second life has a tremendous
                    > effect on a Muslim during his first life, habecause the Muslims
                    > believes that his first life determines the shape of his second
                    life.
                    > In addition, this determines shape of his second life. In addition,
                    > this determination will be through the Judgement of Allah, the All
                    > just and Almighty.
                    >
                    > With this belief in the second life and the Day of Judgement, the
                    > Muslim's life becomes as purposeful as possible and as meaningful
                    as
                    > possible. The Muslim's standing purpose is to go to Paradise in the
                    > second life.
                    >
                    > In other words, the Muslim's permanent purpose is to obey Allah, to
                    > summit to Allah to summit to Allah, to carry out His orders, and to
                    > keep in continues touch with Him through prayer (five times a day),
                    > through fasting (one month a year), through charity (as often as
                    > possible), and through pilgrimage (once in one's life).
                    >
                    > The need For a Permanent Purpose
                    >
                    > Disbelievers have purposes in their lives such as collecting money
                    > and property, indulging sex, eating, and dancing. But all these
                    > purposes are passing ones. All these purposes come and go, go up
                    and
                    > down. Money comes and goes. Health comes and goes. Sexual
                    activities
                    > cannot continue forever. All these lusts for money, food and sex
                    > cannot answer the individual's questions to himself: so what? Then
                    > What?
                    >
                    > However, Islam saves the Muslims from trouble of asking the
                    question,
                    > because Islam makes it clear to the Muslim, from the very
                    beginning,
                    > that the permanent purpose of the Muslim, in this life is to obey
                    > Allah in order to go to Paradise in the second life.
                    >
                    > We should know that the only way for our salvation in this life and
                    > in the hereafter is to know for sure our Lord who created us,
                    believe
                    > in Him, and worship Him alone.
                    >
                    > We should also know our Prophet whom Allah had sent to all mankind,
                    > believe in Him and follow Him. We should, know the religion of
                    truth
                    > which our Lord has commanded us to believe in, and practice it..
                    >
                    > Those in search of truth
                    >
                    > Who have an open mind and heart,
                    >
                    > Islamic Education Foundation
                    >
                    > Welcome You.
                    >
                    > Objectives: -
                    >
                    > To Convey the message of Islam
                    >
                    > To Educate Muslims aboof Islam
                    >
                    > To keep in close contact with new Muslims.
                    >
                    > Activities:
                    >
                    > Offering Courses and presenting lectures about Islam in several
                    > languages.
                    >
                    > Teaching Islam and Arabic.
                    >
                    > Teaching new Muslims to receive the Holy Quran.
                    >
                    > Helping Non- Muslims embrace Islam and complete the required
                    > procedures.
                  • beautiful2afault
                    it was not that religion was hijacked but love love was hijacked by relgion and conformed squashed into the some human understanding for that particular time
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      it was not that religion was hijacked but love

                      love was hijacked by relgion and conformed squashed into the
                      some human understanding for that particular time and age.

                      don't do this, do do that, and all the rules associated with control
                      because humanity can not seem to control their own sexual and
                      emotional aims.

                      ah the procreation of our loins
                      may it be civil, may it be love, may it be consentual.

                      beautiful2afault


                      --- In gnosticism2@y..., Coraxo <coraxo@e...> wrote:
                      > However;
                      >
                      > there appears to be an administrative problem with the list.
                      >
                      > I am on this "gnosticism2@y..." list and another
                      > "gnosticism@y...".
                      >
                      > Now both lists are using "[Gnosticism]" in the subject line of
                      posts that go
                      > out.
                      >
                      > I was thinking in my reply to the spam from 'Domiati" that this was
                      going to
                      > the latter list not this one.
                      >
                      > Could perhaps some way of distinguishing in the subject line be
                      madeto make
                      > the reference list more easily identifiable?
                      >
                      > My response to Domiati had more relevance on the other gnosticism
                      list since
                      > some cursory study of the soteriology of the Imamate had been
                      broached -
                      > however I do not think this list has had that subject as topic, or
                      if so, it
                      > did not develop.
                      >
                      > So my response to Domiati's spam post is probably somewhat
                      dissonant here
                      > since there is no post history on Islam recently.
                      >
                      > Is it possible that one of the two "[Gnosticism]" clubs could use
                      some
                      > modifier to make the subject line distinguishable between the two?
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Corax
                      >
                      >
                      > From: pessy@c...
                      > Reply-To: gnosticism2@y...
                      > Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:05:27 +0200
                      > To: gnosticism2@y...
                      > Subject: Re: [Gnosticism] ISLAM AND THE AsIM OF LIFE
                      >
                      >
                      > Coraxo writes:
                      > > The problem is that Islam was hijacked
                      >
                      > like all the larger religions
                      >
                      > Klaus Schilling
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > gnosticism2-unsubscribe@y...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                    • lady_caritas
                      ... Notwithstanding past discussions in our group as to whether Cathars considered the sacrament of Consolamentum to be of ultimate significance in liberation
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
                        > incognito_lightbringer writes:
                        > > What about the Cathar endura?
                        >
                        > Suicide by starving tends to be licit, as it can be a consequence of
                        > mortification of the Thelema.
                        > Fast active suicides are, to the contrary, usually a form of
                        > affirmation of the Thelema, with very rare exceptions
                        > like those of Philip Mainlaender and Mario de Sa'-Carneiro
                        > This has been shown e.g. by A. Schopenhauer's
                        > "Welt als Wille und Vorstellung"
                        >
                        >
                        > Klaus Schilling

                        Notwithstanding past discussions in our group as to whether Cathars
                        considered the sacrament of Consolamentum to be of ultimate
                        significance in liberation instead of Gnosis in their soteriology,
                        the Cathar endura was nonetheless according to the author in the
                        following link,
                        "… not attested in early Catharist sources, but, it does appear to
                        have been a practice among the late (and extremely peculiar) Cathars
                        of Montaillou in the fourteenth century. Much in their beliefs and
                        practices is unusual, and although Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie's account,
                        _Montaillou_, is perhaps the most widely known work on the Cathars,
                        neither it, nor the heretics it describes can be taken as typical."

                        http://www.gnosis.org/consolamentum.html

                        As to one view on Schopenhauer ~

                        http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/schopenbio.html#_dieweltalswilleund
                        vorstellung

                        "Within philosophy itself, Schopenhauer is important for having
                        broken with his Idealist contemporaries both in espousing a down-to-
                        earth materialism and in forsaking philosophic jargon in favor of a
                        limpid and vigorous literary style. He put forward a metaphysics of
                        the will which approached life in concrete terms (his psychological
                        insights often anticipate Freud) and resulted in a pessimistic
                        attitude to the cosmos. Schopenhauer held that there are two ways to
                        combat the tyranny of the will. The first is through art, at its most
                        exalted in music; it is this aspect that entitles him to be thought
                        of as the exemplarily Romantic philosopher, expounding (in Thomas
                        Mann's phrase) a `Künstlerphilosophie [artist's philosophy] par
                        excellence.' The second path lies in an ethic of asceticism and self-
                        overcoming; Schopenhauer was one of the first Western thinkers to
                        take seriously Hindu and Buddhist philosophy."

                        and

                        "But art offers only a temporary exit from the phenomenal world--the
                        world of suffering, of practical affairs, of causal determinism. The
                        more lasting path is not aesthetic but ethical. The individual,
                        Schopenhauer argues, ought to overcome the chains of desire that
                        enslave him to the will; the ideal is disillusioned, ascetic turning
                        away from the world. It would be better not to have been born; yet
                        suicide is a mistake, since it rules out the possibility of self-
                        overcoming."

                        Cari
                      • alexis johnson
                        An interesting read. Cari, although as for the Diabola est Deus Inversus , I ve recently come to the conclusion that God and the Devil are a vaudeville act
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 4, 2002
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment

                          An interesting read. Cari, although as for the "Diabola est Deus Inversus", I've recently come to the conclusion that God and the Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky waiting for the lightning bolt to strike).

                           

                          Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both?  I once wrote a poem about "God and the Devil dancing around me trading off masks" so I was never sure who was who or what was what.

                          Blackfire

                           lady_caritas wrote:

                          --- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >  pessy@c... wrote:
                          > domiati writes:
                          > >
                          > > What is the purpose of my life?
                          >
                          > Self-mortification
                          >
                          > > What is the purpose of your life?
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          > > What is the purpose of our lives?
                          >
                          > ditto
                          >
                          >
                          > Klaus Schilling
                          >

                          >
                          > SELF-MORTIFICATION !!??!**&$$#^&@#!!?!
                          >

                          >
                          > Come on, Klaus, it can't be as bad as all that.
                          >

                          >
                          > There must be a reason for this...I mean there has to be...I mean
                          isn't there?...something?...anything...Hey, anybody...give me some
                          help here...


                          Blackfire ~ Of course, only Klaus can explain further what he means
                          in his post by "self-mortification."

                          In the meantime, the following homily by Rev. Steven Marshall offers
                          one perspective on "Self-Examination."

                          http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/ecclesia/homily_Lent1.htm

                          Whether or not one agrees with Steven Marshall's point of view (with
                          Jungian overtones), his words are pause for consideration.

                          "So, why do we not suggest that we all leave this vale of woe in some
                          mass suicide? Because there is something yet very precious about
                          human consciousness�there is an insight, a resurrection, a Gnosis
                          that can only be achieved in this embodied consciousness. This Gnosis
                          not only liberates one from the attachments and snares of the world
                          but also awakens a compassion for all sentient beings and a desire to
                          remain and help others with the task of Self-knowledge. Liberation
                          from the chains of attainment frees us from bondage to our demiurgic
                          egos."

                          Cari




                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          gnosticism2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                          Do You Yahoo!?
                          Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

                        • incognito_lightbringer
                          Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when you re rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with milk and honey? (I hate
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when
                            you're rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with
                            milk and honey? (I hate to even ask about chocolate, the Inca kings
                            drank 100 cups a day of that stuff).
                            Klaus, are you a Mormon?
                            Hoeller tells an amusing story in one of his lectures how the Mormons
                            came to Austria to convert the locals. His mother was complaining
                            that they wanted everyone to give coffee up, and that just wouldn't
                            do. They didn't have a very successful mission.

                            --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
                            > incognito_lightbringer writes:
                            > > Klaus admires the encratites.
                            > > Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine.
                            >
                            > 'Wine' extends to all strongly psychoactive materials,
                            > like shrooms, coffee, and LSD.
                            >
                            > > (Maybe a visit to the local
                            > > dominatrix for some flagellation)
                            >
                            > that's anti-encratite as well
                            >
                            > Klaus Schilling
                          • pessy@chez.com
                            ... No way. Morons violate celibacy and veganism without even a glimpse of malconscience. They even justify marriage and procreation. *vomit* They also deny
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              incognito_lightbringer writes:

                              > Klaus, are you a Mormon?

                              No way.
                              Morons violate celibacy and veganism
                              without even a glimpse of malconscience.
                              They even justify marriage and procreation. *vomit*
                              They also deny palingenetic reincarnation.
                              In addition, they are against docetism.
                              On top of all, they are personalistic theists.
                              They also deny the inherent evilness of creation.
                              So I'm nowhere near the Morons,
                              even scored 0% in the belief-o-matic test.

                              Klaus Schilling
                            • lady_caritas
                              Heh, heh. Incognito, I sit here finally with my first cup of coffee of the day (even though I ve been up and busy for over three hours already) to read again
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Heh, heh. Incognito, I sit here finally with my first cup of coffee
                                of the day (even though I've been up and busy for over three hours
                                already) to read again through various thoughtful responses from
                                members to my evolutionary quandary.

                                Be back later when I attempt to put some thoughts together,
                                influenced though they may be by ingestion of this "strongly
                                psychoactive" drink.

                                And, Klaus, I just read your most recent post. Your spelling
                                of "Mormons" was surely just a typographical error? And, although
                                you are certainly entitled to your lifestyle, I'll try to ignore
                                the "vomit" comment, too.

                                Cheers,
                                Cari :-)


                                --- In gnosticism2@y..., incognito_lightbringer <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > Coffee is a stongly psychoactive material?!?!?! Even one cup when
                                > you're rushing off to work in the morning? What about weak tea with
                                > milk and honey? (I hate to even ask about chocolate, the Inca kings
                                > drank 100 cups a day of that stuff).
                                > Klaus, are you a Mormon?
                                > Hoeller tells an amusing story in one of his lectures how the
                                Mormons
                                > came to Austria to convert the locals. His mother was complaining
                                > that they wanted everyone to give coffee up, and that just wouldn't
                                > do. They didn't have a very successful mission.
                                >
                                > --- In gnosticism2@y..., pessy@c... wrote:
                                > > incognito_lightbringer writes:
                                > > > Klaus admires the encratites.
                                > > > Okay, so no sex, meat, or wine.
                                > >
                                > > 'Wine' extends to all strongly psychoactive materials,
                                > > like shrooms, coffee, and LSD.
                                > >
                                > > > (Maybe a visit to the local
                                > > > dominatrix for some flagellation)
                                > >
                                > > that's anti-encratite as well
                                > >
                                > > Klaus Schilling
                              • lady_caritas
                                ... Inversus , I ve recently come to the conclusion that God and the Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky waiting for the lightning
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 5, 2002
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In gnosticism2@y..., alexis johnson <blackfire_al@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > An interesting read. Cari, although as for the "Diabola est Deus
                                  Inversus", I've recently come to the conclusion that God and the
                                  Devil are a vaudeville act (as she peers fearfully up at the sky
                                  waiting for the lightning bolt to strike).
                                  >
                                  > Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both? I once wrote a poem
                                  about "God and the Devil dancing around me trading off masks" so I
                                  was never sure who was who or what was what.
                                  > Blackfire

                                  Do you still have the poem? It sounds interesting.

                                  Anyway, Blackfire, in Gnostic mythology the deity who created the
                                  material world is not the same as the True God or Bythos. The
                                  mythological creator god takes on a range of characteristics from
                                  evil (Sethian) to a more foolish, capricious deity (Valentinian)
                                  depending on the Gnostic school.

                                  The article in this link will give you an introduction to the
                                  Demiurge in Valentinianism ~

                                  http://www.cyberus.ca/~brons/demiurge.htm
                                  from the text:
                                  ".. the Demiurge in Valentinianism is quite different in character
                                  from the hostile creator figure familiar from other schools of
                                  Gnosticism. In the Sethian school, for example, the Demiurge is a
                                  hostile demonic force who creates the material world in order to trap
                                  the spiritual elements. In contrast, Valentinians "show a relatively
                                  positive attitude towards the craftsman of the world or god of
                                  Israel" (Layton 1987). Valentinians insisted that while the Demiurge
                                  may be a bit foolish, he certainly could not be considered evil.
                                  Instead, he has a role to play in the process of redemption."

                                  Cari
                                • pessy@chez.com
                                  ... Both the demiurge and the devil are Archons, nowhere near the Divine. Klaus Schilling
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 6, 2002
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    alexis johnson writes:

                                    >
                                    > Is the Demiurge 'God' or the 'Devil' or both?

                                    Both the demiurge and the devil are Archons, nowhere near the Divine.

                                    Klaus Schilling
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.